gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, buddha said: our interpretation of what constitutes the "establishment" of religion would be beyond the scope of how the founders thought of it. I wouldn't argue that as a general proposition, but I think it still did not encompass 'teaching' Christianity as religion in public schools. I think what I sense changing is that the secular society, sensing its majority status, is now resisting the expression of a common Christian cultural background that did used to be common in places like schools, and to which in the past schools were not resistant - exactly things like holiday displays and such that were milquetoast enough to be non-sectarian and generally accepted in the past. But I still see that as much different from the educational establishment formulating lessons in what Christian doctrine is. And I think this is a place where evangelicals part company with old mainstream Christians - and part of it is probably due the ever increasing class/cultural segregation in the US. There are enough places today where there is a strong enough local evangelical majority in an entire school or district that they feel comfortable in pushing a local Christian sectarian culture back into schools because they feel the strength of their local majority status even as that may be in oppositions to larger the larger national trends away from sectarian religious practice. Edited January 27, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, romad1 said: One of my reserved-for-an-angry-day at work albums. I've always thought that "Untitled" because of the bagpipe sound is when the 11th British Armored Division rolled into Bergen Belsen in the lore of the album being about the Diary of Anne Frank. yeah man the bagpipes tune is the true face melter amongst a collection of slightly less face melters on that record. It's sooooo good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I wouldn't argue that as a general proposition, but I think it still did not encompass 'teaching' Christianity as religion in public schools. I think what I sense changing is that the secular society, sensing its majority status, is now resisting the expression of a common Christian cultural background that did used to be common in places like schools, and to which in the past schools were not resistant - exactly things like holiday displays and such that were milquetoast enough to be non-sectarian and generally accepted in the past. But I still see that as much different from the educational establishment formulating lessons in what Christian doctrine is. And I think this is a place where evangelicals part company with old mainstream Christians - and part of it is probably due the ever increasing class/cultural segregation in the US. There are enough places today where there is a strong enough local evangelical majority in an entire school or district that they feel comfortable in pushing a local Christian sectarian culture back into schools because they feel the strength of their local majority status even as that may be in oppositions to larger the larger national trends away from sectarian religious practice. right, but we've taken the establishment clause to mean you cant put up a cross as a grave marker, or celebrate xmas without having an equal sized display for diwali. i think that is a misreading of the first amendment. i also think religion should be taught in all public schools. a section on world religions would be good for students to learn about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, buddha said: i also think religion should be taught in all public schools. a section on world religions would be good for students to learn about But doing something like that might boarder on teaching critical thinking. And we know we can’t allow that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 55 minutes ago, pfife said: yeah man the bagpipes tune is the true face melter amongst a collection of slightly less face melters on that record. It's sooooo good. Poster I have up. I was at this show. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, buddha said: I also think religion should be taught in all public schools. a section on world religions would be good for students to learn about LOL - good luck with that. I actually took a HS course that did a little 'history of' various world religions but that day is lost in the misty past. Given the checkered history of every world religion and the nature of today's communication system, I can't even imagine a curriculum of any value at all that wouldn't offend *ALL* of them all if any attempt was made to be historically truthful! Edited January 27, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 You would need a distinct course on Christianity alone just to explain all the differences within. Otherwise it’s just very high level stuff you could scrape off a Wikipedia list. If anything make it a combo of history/geography/religion. Evangelicals live in a bubble. That’s by design. And to them it’s all normal. In their defense it’s totally logical to believe what they do because it’s been indoctrinated in them their whole life and they’ve often been sheltered from the world to not know any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: LOL - good luck with that. I actually took a HS course that did a little 'history of' various world religions but that day is lost in the misty past. Given the checkered history of every world religion and the nature of today's communication system, I can't even imagine a curriculum of any value at all that wouldn't offend *ALL* of them all if any attempt was made to be historically truthful! as a catholic school graduate, i thought the theology courses we took were the most interesting ones i ever took. the bible is full of cool stories. kids study "world history" in high school, they can study world religion too. the two really hand in hand. the idea of god and religion has been one of the driving forces in humanity for its entire existence. its kinda important to know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, buddha said: as a catholic school graduate, i thought the theology courses we took were the most interesting ones i ever took. the bible is full of cool stories. kids study "world history" in high school, they can study world religion too. the two really hand in hand. the idea of god and religion has been one of the driving forces in humanity for its entire existence. its kinda important to know about. true enough, I just don't see a path to doing it in such a fractious society. You were in a school that took it upon itself to teach exactly what it decided it wanted to teach about religion, the public schools aren't like to have that luxury any time in the near future. Truth is, when they coined 'e pluribus unum', the many were already a lot closer to one than they are today! Edited January 27, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: true enough, I just don't see a path to doing it in such a fractious society. You were in a school that took it upon itself to teach exactly what it decided it wanted to teach about religion, the public schools aren't like to have that luxury any time i the near future. When they coined 'e pluribus unum', the many were already a lot closer to one than they are today! i know it wont happen, i just think it would be valuable. its too contentious a topic to really be discussed in public schools outside of being touched upon in history classes where it can be viewed as dispassionately as possible. and like you said, we're a secular society now outside of utah and the deep south. this board is probably as good an example as any of how northern middle class white people feel about religion, and its usually only addressed here to mock those who believe it and call them stupid. edit: white christians and christianity are mocked. other religions and non-white religious people are not. Edited January 27, 2022 by buddha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, buddha said: edit: white christians and christianity are mocked. other religions and non-white religious people are not I'd say the Jihadi's received a fair level of mocking on the old board - they just haven't been so topical since we arrived here. But I suppose it's also true that mockery, and to a greater degree satirical mockery, do follow from familiarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I'll do some mocking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 GOP freedom is so great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 hours ago, buddha said: as a catholic school graduate, i thought the theology courses we took were the most interesting ones i ever took. the bible is full of cool stories. As a catholic school graduate, I failed the Church History class. I did OK in the prayer class though, where we were encouraged to "silently reflect with our eyes closed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Next on To Catch a Predator . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Seems to be the difficulty with getting Gaetz on underage charges is the victim lied to them about her age. Don't get me wrong. I hope he gets his comeuppance, but I do think this has something to do with the delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 What an absolute moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said: What an absolute moron she's still a very attractive Karen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, romad1 said: she's still a very attractive Karen. raise your standards! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, romad1 said: she's still a very attractive Karen. Hard pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, romad1 said: she's still a very attractive Karen. Lipstick on a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 She was always a good looking woman. Her daughter was not attractive at all. The dumb and the politics would make it a non-starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, buddha said: i know it wont happen, i just think it would be valuable. LOL- I just came across this quote today by total random chance: "The schools have no more important task than to teach rigorous thinking, cautious judgment, and consistent inference; therefore they should leave alone whatever is not suitable for these operations: religion, for example." F. Nietzsche 🤔 Edited January 27, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: LOL- I just came across this quote today by total random chance: "The schools have no more important task than to teach rigorous thinking, cautious judgment, and consistent inference; therefore they should leave alone whatever is not suitable for these operations: religion, for example." F. Nietzsche 🤔 well, we can argue about the value of listening to nietzsche if you want to go down that road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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