Cleanup in Aisle Lunatic (h/t romad1)

[gehringer_2]

45 minutes ago, romad1 said:

The Dieppe raid was prior to Stalingrad, the Torch landings, the large-scale arrival us US strategic bombers to the UK, and the battle of Guadalcanal.  I'm consider myself a very well-read person about WWII and didn't internalize any of that until I started watching the Youtube series World War II week by week.   1942 was the final year of muddling through for the Commonwealth.  

Part of the muddling through were Churchill's cigar stabs at the maps where he would ask for this or that "master stroke" which were possibly strategically smart but Commonwealth forces lacked the capabilities to actually make them work.  Dieppe did provide a lot of positive lessons.  One being that you needed port facilities and two that landing at a major port was likely too difficult.   Hence development of the mulberry harbors.  Another lesson was that the allies needed air superiority for the landings.   

Mountbatten was an upper class twit as portrayed in the infamous Monty Python sketches but not much could have helped Dieppe...in August 1942...when Germany still had an unbeaten army.  

I saw a thoery that Dieppe was sacrificial cover for a failed covert effort to steal a 4 rotor Enigma. It struck me as even if the Enigma story was true, it was more likely the tail than the dog. 

[romad1]

14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I saw a thoery that Dieppe was sacrificial cover for a failed covert effort to steal a 4 rotor Enigma. It struck me as even if the Enigma story was true, it was more likely the tail than the dog. 

They did a bunch of those raids for classified materials like heavy water, radars and enigma machines without sacrificing as much as they did in Dieppe.   I understand that Ian Flemming's job in Navy intelligence was based around one of those units.   Someone should do a children's book on all the British intelligence agents who have written children's books btw (e.g., Roald Dahl, Ian Flemming)

[mtutiger]

13 hours ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

These “tip lines” always go well… 

This is the thing about the Terry McAuliffe gaffe during the campaign... it clearly was a gaffe, saying that parents shouldn't have control over schooling is never gonna play well.

Having said that, as we are currently learning from living in our red state, 'parents' aren't a monolith.... it's really just a question about which set of parents are empowered and get to call the shots and which set of parents have no voice at all. As far as I'm concerned, I'm in the latter group; if you don't agree with their line, these clowns are making the job of being a parent harder in Texas, and that now appears to be case in Virginia as well.

Edited January 26, 2022 by mtutiger

[Motown Bombers]

I'm so shocked it's happening in Virginia. Who could have seen it coming? 

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This is the thing about the Terry McAuliffe gaffe during the campaign... it clearly was a gaffe, saying that parents shouldn't have control over schooling is never gonna play well.

Having said that, as we are currently learning from living in our red state, 'parents' aren't a monolith.... it's really just a question about which set of parents are empowered and get to call the shots and which set of parents have no voice at all.

These clowns are making the job of being a parent harder in Texas, and that now appears to be case in Virginia as well.

i think there is real backlash against school closings and what people perceive as curriculum changes based on "crt."  republicans are making a killing off of it and democrats are in a bad spot.

its a fight with the teachers unions here in chicago.  it seems to be a fight with the local school boards in virginia and other places.

is there political fighting in texas between the state republican leadership and the blue local leaders in places like houston and dallas?

[oblong]

A Karen last night in GP used the N word at their school board meeting.... complained that her kid got in trouble for using it even though "they" get to use it in songs and such.

 

[mtutiger]

13 minutes ago, buddha said:

is there political fighting in texas between the state republican leadership and the blue local leaders in places like houston and dallas?

Yes, and not just in Houston and Dallas, but in a lot of suburban communities as well. Particularly on COVID.

[Tigerbomb13]

 

[CMRivdogs]

36 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This is the thing about the Terry McAuliffe gaffe during the campaign... it clearly was a gaffe, saying that parents shouldn't have control over schooling is never gonna play well.

Having said that, as we are currently learning from living in our red state, 'parents' aren't a monolith.... it's really just a question about which set of parents are empowered and get to call the shots and which set of parents have no voice at all. As far as I'm concerned, I'm in the latter group; if you don't agree with their line, these clowns are making the job of being a parent harder in Texas, and that now appears to be case in Virginia as well.

I’ve got three teachers and 1 school administrator in the family. From what I can tell between the absent parents, over active parents and politicians (whose kids attend private schools, both in and out of state) their job is near impossible.

The GOP plan seems to be destroy public schools, issue vouchers, and funnel money to their big businesses buddies in education 

[Motown Bombers]

Thread

 

[oblong]

18 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

I’ve got three teachers and 1 school administrator in the family. From what I can tell between the absent parents, over active parents and politicians (whose kids attend private schools, both in and out of state) their job is near impossible.

The GOP plan seems to be destroy public schools, issue vouchers, and funnel money to their big businesses buddies in education 

and the religious schools.  Defund public schools so that the most vulnerable people who have no choice are left with absolute crap.  Charter and private schools can choose who attends.  There will be a lot of kids trapped in an underfunded school district.  Kids with autism, special needs, learning disabilities... kids who's parents don't know how to sign up for charter/private schools.... Some things are not able to be fixed via alleged market based economics.  

 

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, oblong said:

and the religious schools.  Defund public schools so that the most vulnerable people who have no choice are left with absolute crap.  Charter and private schools can choose who attends.  There will be a lot of kids trapped in an underfunded school district.  Kids with autism, special needs, learning disabilities... kids who's parents don't know how to sign up for charter/private schools.... Some things are not able to be fixed via alleged market based economics.  

 

i assume the vouchers will come with instructions on how to apply, but i agree that they will end up taking away the best students from struggling schools.  now, the question is why should those students be forced to go to school in a bad school because of where they live, while other wealthier students can afford to go to better private schools?

no amount of funding will save those bad public schools.  schools are as good as the parents and kids that attend.  active participating parents who instill those values in their children will lead to better public schools in the area.  

i dont support "defunding public schools", but i do think the idea that if we throw tons more money at certain schools or force kids to go to bad schools even if they can succeed elsewhere that those schools will get better is a pipedream.  what will improve those schools is better economic conditions for their parents.

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

i assume the vouchers will come with instructions on how to apply, but i agree that they will end up taking away the best students from struggling schools.  now, the question is why should those students be forced to go to school in a bad school because of where they live, while other wealthier students can afford to go to better private schools?

no amount of funding will save those bad public schools.  schools are as good as the parents and kids that attend.  active participating parents who instill those values in their children will lead to better public schools in the area.  

i dont support "defunding public schools", but i do think the idea that if we throw tons more money at certain schools or force kids to go to bad schools even if they can succeed elsewhere that those schools will get better is a pipedream.  what will improve those schools is better economic conditions for their parents.

Isn't it fair to say, though, that vouchers would also take money away from schools that perform reasonably well and perhaps reduce their level of success?

Vouchers don't just lead to reduced money for the bad schools, it affects all of them. And this is particularly the case in not just urban areas, but in rural areas as well.

Edited January 26, 2022 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, oblong said:

and the religious schools.  Defund public schools so that the most vulnerable people who have no choice are left with absolute crap.  Charter and private schools can choose who attends.  There will be a lot of kids trapped in an underfunded school district.  Kids with autism, special needs, learning disabilities... kids who's parents don't know how to sign up for charter/private schools.... Some things are not able to be fixed via alleged market based economics.  

 

Before the Constitution was even on the table, the founders at the Continental Congress put this in the Northwest Ordinance:

Quote

religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”

It happens to be engraved in the wall over the entrance of Angell Hall at the 'U'.  Just another example of a 'conservative' party that has lost any connection to founding motivations of this nation.

[gehringer_2]

43 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Thread

 

As nice it it would be to see Gaetz go down, it sadly won't have much effect on anything beyond his district.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Isn't it fair to say, though, that vouchers would also take money away from schools that perform reasonably well and perhaps reduce their level of success?

Vouchers don't just lead to reduced money for the bad schools, it affects all of them. And this is particularly the case in not just urban areas, but in rural areas as well.

yes.  i dont think vouchers are a perfect idea, but they are a way to let ambitious parents move their kids to schools they couldnt before.  it also rewards higher performing schools.  it also does help those kids by getting them into better schools.  there is a trade off as you have mentioned, but its not an idea without ANY real world merit.

i think you can do that without vouchers.  chicago has a system whereby you can apply to send your kids to other chicago public schools outside your neighborhood.

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Before the Constitution was even on the table, the founders at the Continental Congress put this in the Northwest Ordinance:

It happens to be engraved in the wall over the entrance of Angell Hall at the 'U'.  Just another example of a 'conservative' party that has lost any connection to founding motivations of this nation.

why is that important in a voucher debate?  vouchers help kids get into better schools and furthers their "religion, morality, and knowledge".

[CMRivdogs]

I can only go by second or third hand knowledge, but the charter schools in Detroit are not much better than the public system.

It only gives parents whose kids who have been expelled from one school to go on to another one. Or if a parent doesn’t like a particular teacher to move on. It seem to have created a lot of school shopping and not much real learning

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, buddha said:

yes.  i dont think vouchers are a perfect idea, but they are a way to let ambitious parents move their kids to schools they couldnt before.  it also rewards higher performing schools.  it also does help those kids by getting them into better schools.  there is a trade off as you have mentioned, but its not an idea without ANY real world merit.

I never said it didn't have merit, but let's be honest, it's also a system that rewards some kids while screwing others.

I highlight rural areas because, despite the focus on underperforming urban schools whenever this debate comes up, they are an area that get hits hard by this as well. I grew up in a rural community, 40 minutes from the nearest sizable city of significance, luckily one with fairly highly rated schools for the area. But I also understand, being Catholic in a town with a sizable Lutheran parochial school for K-8, how public funding for these institutions can have an impact on a districts bottom line. And how that may impact the level education that people who don't have that option get, despite having engaged parents or a will to succeed.

Edited January 26, 2022 by mtutiger

[buddha]

Just now, mtutiger said:

I never said it didn't have merit, but let's be honest, it's also a system that rewards some kids while screwing others.

I highlight rural areas because, despite the focus on underperforming urban schools whenever this debate comes up, they are an area that get hits hard by this as well. I grew up in a rural community, 40 minutes from the nearest sizable city of significance, luckily one with fairly highly rated schools for the area. But I also saw, being Catholic in a town with a sizable Lutheran parochial schools for K-8, how that can have an impact on a districts bottom line. And how that may impact the level education that people who don't have that option get, despite having engaged parents or a will to succeed.

i agree with your concerns.  i would also say that the current system ALSO rewards some kids while screwing others, usually by how much money their parents make.

there are other changes we can make to the way we fund public schools that would help, but ultimately they may be impossible politically (like stopping using property taxes to fund local schools and instead using one big fund to fund them all equally).  vouchers works politically for republicans because it does help people and has the added benefit of hurting teacher's unions.

[Motown Bombers]

School of choice is becoming a thing here. I live in a school of choice district and there are probably just as many Detroiters in the schools. 

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

i agree with your concerns.  i would also say that the current system ALSO rewards some kids while screwing others, usually by how much money their parents make.

Sure. But if I'm someone who lives in a community, is an engaged parent and there isn't space for my kid in a charter school, why should my tax dollars to educating someone elses?

It's not hard to imagine scenarios involving charter schools I'm getting f'd harder than with current public school funding scheme.

Edited January 26, 2022 by mtutiger

[Jim Cowan]

Hey you fans of The Crown, have you seen The Windsors?  It's awesome.

[1984Echoes]

15 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Republican Fascist Scum.

Trump Supporters are Scum.

[oblong]

28 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Hey you fans of The Crown, have you seen The Windsors?  It's awesome.

I saw it show up. Is it a doc or show?  Based on your Rec I will watch it