General Tiger Discussion

[1984Echoes]

51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

... Do not see them making a bid for JV, he's going to go for more years & $ than the Tigers should pay...

I don't think he'll get what he wants coming back from TJ.

Just my opinion but... I believe his best bet is to take a 1-year deal, finish the year strong and prove that he's worth a contract of a few years at big money... and get that in the 2022 offseason. I don't think he'll get those offers this offseason.

In effect, he'd be betting on himself.

That's my guess: he goes for a 1-year $20 mill-ish (I have no clue on what his 1-year just-back-from-TJ value is...) prove-it deal and then tries to cash in big after 2022.

I think the Tigers could go for that 1-year deal if that's what JV ends up pushing for... 

[SoCalTiger]

I don’t see JV in our immediate future. I would try to resign Peralta for 2022 if it’s only one year and four mil max. 
As for Boyd I would offer him 8 million for two years plus incentives for innings pitched maxing out at four million. Basically value a healthy Boyd at 8 mil per year. 

[1984Echoes]

I have no interest in Boyd for 2 more years.

[1984Echoes]

If he can squeeze into 2022 based on - circumstances - fine.

But after 2022 it's time for the Tigers and Boyd to part ways.

[Useful Idiot]

I sincerely doubt they will sign any $20M+  pitcher. They are gonna remain thrifty explaining it that they  aren't being "cheap" but rather that they need the roster slots to develop up-and-coming talent....Personally I think even Boyd will be "too expensive" for them.

[RandyMarsh]

I for one think Verlander is going to be of value in 2022 and would love to sign him. He isn't going to be the Verlander of old but I think he is still gonna be a solid mid rotation guy at worst. Yeah he's coming off TJ and there really isn't much of a precedent for guys his age coming off of TJ but in general the better you are pre TJ the better you seem to respond post TJ for obvious reasons.

Chris Sale for example is dominating in his TJ return and he's only 13 months removed from surgery where as Verlander will be 19 months by the time 2022 starts. Yeah Sale is 5 years younger but Verlander isn't your typical 38 year old. It's not like he was throwing 91 or 92 pre surgery, he was still regularly touching 99 and sitting mid 90s, so even if he takes a hit velo wise he will still be better than average and ditto for his spin numbers.   

Bottom line I'm not going to bet against him and if we could get him on a 3 year deal I would be all over it cause I think he will still provide value and have the upside of being really good. 

[Useful Idiot]

Besides,if they can bait the fanbase along by flirting with a wildcard slot for a couple years, they'd be throwing money away building a dominant roster.

[chasfh]

18 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I don’t see JV in our immediate future. I would try to resign Peralta for 2022 if it’s only one year and four mil max. 

{snip}

I’d be OK with this as long as they’re willing to cut bait on Peralta early if (once?) he shows he is as ineffective with results as his very blue Savant card indicates he should be.

I would also be OK with completely letting Peralta go. His peripherals are all wrong: FIP- of 114 (belying his ERA- of 70); SIERA of 5.14 (vs ERA of 3.04); BABIP of .238; K/9 under 6 (!); fWAR of 0.6 (vs RA9-WAR of 2.2). And arguably the worst peripheral of all: age 33 in 2022. But I doubt we will do this, so I’d bet the Tigers would roll the dice on him for another year, and that would be OK with me as a calculated gamble.

I don’t care about the money, but if the Tigers were to throw more than one guaranteed year at Peralta, I would be disappointed not just in such a deal per se, but in the departure from the directional changes the organization has been signaling to us for the past several weeks.

[thefunk]

Insanely sad to see MTS completely implode. Glad to know things are continuing here. It'll be easier once we've won a WS or two.

Edited September 26, 2021 by thefunk
can't spell

[Useful Idiot]

20 minutes ago, thefunk said:

Insanely sad to see MTS completely implode. Glad to know things are continuing here. It'll be easier once we've won a WS or two.

What happened? Did someone pass?

[Useful Idiot]

Earlier we had encouragement from Chris and Al that they intended to be active in the free agent market. Now I'm seeing qualifiers that it all isn't going to happen in one year, that it will take some time to phase in.

I truly believe they are going to wait for Miggy's contract to lapse before they spend any serious money. And, although I hate it as a fan....doing so probably makes more sense, from a purely business perspective.

If I'm wrong about that, then great...let them prove it. I don't think Scherzer is eligible for a qualifying offer, so they should go all-out to sign him. 

[Tigermojo]

I never would have believed, at the start of the season, the Tigers would be flirting with .500 in the last week of the schedule.

It's been a really entertaining year.

[alex]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

I never would have believed, at the start of the season, the Tigers would be flirting with .500 in the last week of the schedule.

It's been a really entertaining year.

Agreed. Should be an interesting off season with the team and CBA coming up. One thing that hopefully teams and fans alike hopefully can see - IMHO, the days of 7-8 starting position players playing in 150+ games may be gone. Same for 3-4 SPs on a team pitching 200 innings. Sure there will be an outlier or two here and there - but depth at 'every' position is more important than ever. The rosters should increase by another 1-2 players it would seem...

Say counting from the last 5 years on it may be more rare to see anybody win 250 games again. To hit 400-500 HRs (again an outlier here and there)... IMHO, the game has changed in this regard as well.

[Motor City Sonics]

What happened to the Padres?  Wow, what a collapse.   The Tigers could finish with the same record as them.   They'll probably be looking for a new manager.    I wonder if they'll try to coax Bruce Bochy out of retirement.   I think he still lives there. 

[mtutiger]

Lynn is crazy.... it would be idiotic to deal Mize

Edited September 29, 2021 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Lynn is crazy.... it would be idiotic to deal Mize

Lynn is not only crazy but he is wrong. If Tork and Greene hit at all as they project in the majors then add Candy, Schoop, Baddoo and Grossman plus Haase's HR pop and the bat that comes with your SS upgrade and you have plenty of offense for today's MLB. Certainly enough to where the marginal value of another good arm is far greater than the marginal value of another bat. But Avila knows that even if Lynn doesn't. The problem with the Tiger offense right now is too much Niko and Willi, and I predict the odds of either of them getting much playing time next season is close to zero.

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Lynn is not only crazy but he is wrong. If Tork and Greene hit at all as they project in the majors then add Candy, Schoop, Baddoo and Grossman plus Haase's HR pop and the bat that comes with your SS upgrade and you have plenty of offense for today's MLB. Certainly enough to where the marginal value of another good arm is far greater than the marginal value of another bat. But Avila knows that even if Lynn doesn't. The problem with the Tiger offense right now is too much Niko and Willi, and I predict the odds of either of them getting much playing time next season is close to zero.

The nexus of his take (which is seen in a previous tweet he shared just before this one - perhaps I should have posted for context) is that he basically believes that Correa and Seager are off the table, leaving Story as the only possible option he likes to fill the hole at SS while providing more offense.

I think you're completely right on this - it's fair to suggest that Greene and Tork will have struggles, but it's a low bar to provide more offense than Willi or Niko. But even more importantly, it's not like a hitting SS is the only need here - they actually *need* starting pitching. How the **** does trading Mize help when you need to add starters?

Edited September 29, 2021 by mtutiger

[Useful Idiot]

One can only hope that some of our low offense players are being given "last chance" opportunities as fill ins for these late season injuries.

When Victor Reyes was sidelined and they brought up Zach Short to replace him,  it was hard not thinking "this is a team claiming to have a future?"

[Archie]

5 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

One can only hope that some of our low offense players are being given "last chance" opportunities as fill ins for these late season injuries.

When Victor Reyes was sidelined and they brought up Zach Short to replace him,  it was hard not thinking "this is a team claiming to have a future?"

There's only a week left to the season so I don't think they wanted to add someone to the 40. Short has played enough in the bigs this year to possibly help the team.  He needs to improve at the plate to stay.  He's a decent fielder so hope he finds some offense. 

He's kind of like Jacoby Jones but Jones totally lost it at the plate.  He even rode the bench the last month in Toledo. He still made a couple million this year.

[SoCalTiger]

Trading Mize îs not going to happen. Suck for 5 years to get him and then trade him. No way. As I have said before trade Manning who is not MLB ready but highly valued for Abrahms or similar highly rated shortstop that is blocked. Then/ or  sign Chris Taylor for shortstop , second , center etc around 18/mil per year for 4 years . Keep Peralta as your # 5 and sign/trade for two veteran starters on short term deals. One stud $$$ and one innings eater $. Find a catcher and your set. Let Wentz or Manning, if not traded ,push from AAA. DFA Niko and send Wille Castro to AAA.

[Motor City Sonics]

Victor has hit .325 since the All Star Break.  He's going to be in competition with Derek Hill (often-injured), Daz Cameron (hasn't proven himself yet), Kody Clemens, Daniel Cabrera.   Don't be surprised if he bulks up over the offseason and tries to hit for more power.  Don't snooze on the guy, there still a lot of potential there.   

As far as trading Mize, that's click bait there, he knows they aren't shopping Mize, Skubal or Manning.   They are going to build their team around this pitching and they know one of them is going to end up getting TJ at some point.  They aren't messing with their pitching depth, no freaking way.  

Shopping List -   1 good starting pitcher,  1 adequate starter, a decent catcher for a year and they need to figure out the SS situation.    I don't think they need an expensive corner OF.   They have Robbie Grossman and they'll use 4 other guys in the OF (Baddoo, Hill, Reyes and maybe Cameron and if Riley earns it, he's in the mix too).  They don't need to spend a ton on an OF.  They don't need to trade prospects for one either.   

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Victor has hit .325 since the All Star Break.  He's going to be in competition with Derek Hill (often-injured), Daz Cameron (hasn't proven himself yet), Kody Clemens, Daniel Cabrera.   Don't be surprised if he bulks up over the offseason and tries to hit for more power.  Don't snooze on the guy, there still a lot of potential there.   

As far as trading Mize, that's click bait there, he knows they aren't shopping Mize, Skubal or Manning.   They are going to build their team around this pitching and they know one of them is going to end up getting TJ at some point.  They aren't messing with their pitching depth, no freaking way.  

Shopping List -   1 good starting pitcher,  1 adequate starter, a decent catcher for a year and they need to figure out the SS situation.    I don't think they need an expensive corner OF.   They have Robbie Grossman and they'll use 4 other guys in the OF (Baddoo, Hill, Reyes and maybe Cameron and if Riley earns it, he's in the mix too).  They don't need to spend a ton on an OF.  They don't need to trade prospects for one either.   

My guess is they stand pat on pitching all the way around, meaning that they accept arbitration or sign Boyd, make Peralta a reasonable offer (though in his case it takes two to tango - he could make other plans), and pencil Alexander in as the last starter. And try to sign at least one more 'disposable' guy. The other possibility is moving Fulmer back into the rotation, but I don't see the potential BP depth that might make that likely. That's the kind of thing that they could consider if they get lucky and say Wentz and Faedo are both ready for BP roles.

Edited September 29, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

There are quite a few good starting pitchers in the 12 - 18 million dollar range. 

A lot could depend on what happens with the CBA  coming up, but they do have some affordable viable options that are better than some of the guys they've signed in recent years.  

[casimir]

Is a pitching rotation with Wily Peralta as a full time cog really a playoff proposition?  He's having a nice/lucky season that has kind of come out of nowhere.

[Useful Idiot]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

There's only a week left to the season so I don't think they wanted to add someone to the 40. 

Yeah, that's probably it. But at the same time I think we are getting to the point where  we are going to have to make some tough decisions if we are going to get better.  Some of the guys that we've been nursing high hopes for are going to either have to produce, or go away.

I like Niko Goodrum,  his ability to serve many roles in the field is a plus, good speed, but he's gone soft at the plate. 

I think Victor Reyes has more potential than is readily evident. If he can manage to up his game a bit more then I will delight in calling him "under rated".

Cameron, Short, and Willi C, I'm having doubts on. I'm also concerned that the brilliance shown by Haase earlier in the year has been "scouted out" by the rest of the league, and he is less a threat than he had been. I've not given up on him, but I am concerned.

And pitching? There are a handful of names that just need to disappear.  Jiminez AND all the "high potential up side" bargain basement pitchers we've been farting around with.