General Tiger Discussion

[oblong]

@Tigeraholic1 posted this in the Sept 27th game thread but I think it's a worthy inclusion here:

 

 

[1984Echoes]

Nice!

Now...

Get better. Reduce HR's. And pitch more innings/ more innings/game.

[RandyMarsh]

Lynn now suggesting the Tigers trade Mize in the offseason for bats. Listen Im not opposed to trading him just cause we know how fragile pitching is but I dont see how that necessarily makes us any better. It feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul. 

The only way I think it makes sense is if you truly believe Fetter is some sorta pitcher whisperer and you feel you can find guys for cheap that he can help get Mize like production from. 

[1984Echoes]

Trading Mize right now would be asinine.

[RandyMarsh]

I agree. I know we got burned with Fulmer so I can see Tigers fans being worried that something similar can happen to Mize but I think as an organization you can't operate like that.

Just cause you got burned not trading one player before doesnt mean that you should trade every good pitcher you get from here on in.

[mtutiger]

Does Lynn speak with any authority on this, or is this just Lynn's opinion?

That's the biggest problem I have with his Twitter ramblings.... I have no idea whether he's actually plugged in or whether he's just shooting from the hip.

In any event, trading Mize would be a highly questionable proposition.... If you go down that road, *maybe* Manning, but sure as hell not Mize.

[RandyMarsh]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Does Lynn speak with any authority on this, or is this just Lynn's opinion?

That's the biggest problem I have with his Twitter ramblings.... I have no idea whether he's actually plugged in or whether he's just shooting from the hip.

In any event, trading Mize would be a highly questionable proposition.... If you go down that road, *maybe* Manning, but sure as hell not Mize.

To me it sounds like speculation but he definitely could've worded it more clearly, I believe the verbiage he used originally was "dont be surprised if the Tigers trade one of their prize pitchers(probably Mize) for a bat or two."  

Edit: heres the original tweet, he does say Mize is just his guess. 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by RandyMarsh

[Dan Gilmore]

Keep Mize, buy bats works too

[casimir]

26 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Keep Mize, buy bats works too

They're going to have to go after arms and bats.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Trading Mize right now would be asinine.

Depends upon the return.  I think a lot of Tiger fans were upset by the Granderson trade.  I didn't like it.  But that young pitcher they got in return turned out to be pretty good.

[casimir]

Schoop has cooled off since that torrid June.  I remember earlier this season on another forum that I visited that there were people suggesting a 4 year extension.  That seems a bit more of a reach now than it was before.

[RandyMarsh]

This seems like something that would happen to the Lions.(well assuming they ever were actually good enough to win a division.) Right before the playoffs starts you lose one of your most important players due to his stupidity.

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

This seems like something that would happen to the Lions.(well assuming they ever were actually good enough to win a division.) Right before the playoffs starts you lose one of your most important players due to his stupidity.

Maybe they can try Daniel Norris out in the set up role?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Depends upon the return.  I think a lot of Tiger fans were upset by the Granderson trade.  I didn't like it.  But that young pitcher they got in return turned out to be pretty good.

and he wasn't even the key to the trade - that was Austin Jackson, who was considered can't miss - Max was still a crapshoot. And AJ did start out like he was going to have an awesome career. Austin put up 19 WAR in his 1st 4 seasons. Then he just got done in by a bunch of nagging injuries starting with the hamstring issues. Maybe because he was following Curtis but I feel like few people realize what an impact player Jackson started out to be.

Edited September 29, 2021 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

Granderson was also due for an extension shortly and there were question marks namely his struggles against lefties as to whether the Tigers should give him a big extension and if they did if it would come back to haunt them so I think that was the biggest reason why they cut bait. They also sold high on Edwin Jackson in the process.

Edited September 29, 2021 by RandyMarsh

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Granderson was also due for an extension shortly and there were question marks namely his struggles against lefties as to whether the Tigers should give him a big extension and if they did if it would come back to haunt them so I think that was the biggest reason why they cut bait. They also sold high on Edwin Jackson in the process.

The controllability thing seems important.... aside from looking like a promising future top-of-rotation pitcher, Mize is young and under team control for a while.

Someone should have to unload *a lot* of assets to acquire him during this offseason, and I doubt that anyone would meet that price tbh. 

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, casimir said:

Is a pitching rotation with Wily Peralta as a full time cog really a playoff proposition?  He's having a nice/lucky season that has kind of come out of nowhere.

I don't think so. I say we take a flyer on Wily for one year, $2 million tops, and keep our finger hovering over the eject button.

[Motown Bombers]

3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I agree. I know we got burned with Fulmer so I can see Tigers fans being worried that something similar can happen to Mize but I think as an organization you can't operate like that.

Just cause you got burned not trading one player before doesnt mean that you should trade every good pitcher you get from here on in.

Getting burned on Fulmer would seem more of a reason to keep Mize. Seems you would to have as many good arms as possible, especially when they are on controllable rookie contracts. 

[chasfh]

I think we need to pump the brakes on Victor Reyes as a breakout candidate. Sure, he's hit .325/.348/.516 since the break, but he's the beneficiary of a .398 BABIP since then. Normalize his stats to the league average BABIP of .292, and his line drops to .246/.273/.405. And that's before we normalize for his 14.8% HR/FB rate, which is double the MLB average. Feels unsustainable. And he'll be 27 next year, not exactly prospect age.

I mean, sure, let's see him in spring training, but unless he found God over the winter, I'm penciling him in for fourth outfielder. Because if he's the same guy next year with the meh glove and the 7:1 K/BB ratio, and he still ends up as a starter, that would mean we have a playoff-sized hole out there.

[casimir]

18 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think we need to pump the brakes on Victor Reyes as a breakout candidate. Sure, he's hit .325/.348/.516 since the break, but he's the beneficiary of a .398 BABIP since then. Normalize his stats to the league average BABIP of .292, and his line drops to .246/.273/.405. And that's before we normalize for his 14.8% HR/FB rate, which is double the MLB average. Feels unsustainable. And he'll be 27 next year, not exactly prospect age.

I mean, sure, let's see him in spring training, but unless he found God over the winter, I'm penciling him in for fourth outfielder. Because if he's the same guy next year with the meh glove and the 7:1 K/BB ratio, and he still ends up as a starter, that would mean we have a playoff-sized hole out there.

Agreed.  In spite of his hot streak, he still has a below average season with traditional stats.  And the BABIP and K:BB suggest he’s not found something, he’s just lucky.

It’s nice see him have this success, it’s nice to see Peralta’s season, it’s nice to see Schoop’s ridiculous month.  But these are outliers, not things to build on.

The Schoop extension makes sense for who he is as a player and the potential roster situation out of camp.  Reyes can be in camp since he’s on the books and cheap.  Peralta can shop his season on the market and try for a multi year deal or maybe a sizable one year deal.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Maybe because he was following Curtis but I feel like few people realize what an impact player Jackson started out to be.

I think there’s something to this.  What’s the old adage, don’t be the guy following The Guy, be the guy after that?

[Edman85]

How can you say trading Mize is asinine without knowledge of what is coming in return?

 

Trading Mize for Trevor Rosenthal is asinine.

Trading Mize for Noelvi Marte, Julio Rodriguez, and Kyle Lewis is a win.

[mtutiger]

43 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think we need to pump the brakes on Victor Reyes as a breakout candidate. Sure, he's hit .325/.348/.516 since the break, but he's the beneficiary of a .398 BABIP since then. Normalize his stats to the league average BABIP of .292, and his line drops to .246/.273/.405. And that's before we normalize for his 14.8% HR/FB rate, which is double the MLB average. Feels unsustainable. And he'll be 27 next year, not exactly prospect age.

I mean, sure, let's see him in spring training, but unless he found God over the winter, I'm penciling him in for fourth outfielder. Because if he's the same guy next year with the meh glove and the 7:1 K/BB ratio, and he still ends up as a starter, that would mean we have a playoff-sized hole out there.

I haven't really seen anyone here suggest that Reyes is anything more than in competition for a roster spot next spring. But maybe I missed someone suggesting otherwise.

[Dan Gilmore]

46 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think we need to pump the brakes on Victor Reyes as a breakout candidate. Sure, he's hit .325/.348/.516 since the break, but he's the beneficiary of a .398 BABIP since then. Normalize his stats to the league average BABIP of .292, and his line drops to .246/.273/.405. And that's before we normalize for his 14.8% HR/FB rate, which is double the MLB average. Feels unsustainable. And he'll be 27 next year, not exactly prospect age.

I mean, sure, let's see him in spring training, but unless he found God over the winter, I'm penciling him in for fourth outfielder. Because if he's the same guy next year with the meh glove and the 7:1 K/BB ratio, and he still ends up as a starter, that would mean we have a playoff-sized hole out there.

I don’t think people had him as more than  #4 or #5 OF for next year, so the brakes were already being applied. It’s more that he has done well of late and Daz in particular has not, while Hill has durability questions. Reyes dug his way out of a nontender hole, but not much more.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Dan Gilmore

[Jim Cowan]

5 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

I don’t think people had him as more than  #4 or #5 OF for next year, so the brakes were already being applied. It’s more that he has done well of late and Daz in particular has not, while Hill has durability questions. Reyes dug his way out of a nontender hole, but not much more.

I agree, when people talk about his improvement they are envisioning him possibly making the team as a 4th or 5th, instead of being removed from the 40.