2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Yes he isn't a key building block.  They need to find someone to play every day with a decent glove and mediocre bat, not the Castros and Goodrum and Short.  We can't deal with that again.

That might be Trevor Story, although he’s probably looking for something north of 6/120. If he would come down to 5/100, I think the Tigers would pounce all over that. That would still be by far the biggest commitment to any player that they’ve made since the old man.

 

[Jim Cowan]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That might be Trevor Story, although he’s probably looking for something north of 6/120. If he would come down to 5/100, I think the Tigers would pounce all over that. That would still be by far the biggest commitment to any player that they’ve made since the old man.

 

Funny how $20 million almost seems "affordable" now, and 5 years isn't an extreme long term commitment.  I think you're right, he wouldn't take it.

[Tiger337]

As Avila said last month, the Tigers will be acquiring a catcher (done), shortstop and starting pitcher.  No outfielder or relief pitchers.  Avila always does what he says he's going to do whether we like it or not.  

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2021/11/4-free-agents-the-tigers-should-call-right-now.html

Edited November 5, 2021 by Tiger337

[Dan Gilmore]

I am on board with the Story idea, including not going too many years. 
 

I do expect them to sign some bull pen help, even if it’s only bottom feeding. #nobarns

[Tiger337]

It's always a good idea to acquire some cheap arms and see what your staff can do with them.  It's rarely a good idea to spend a lot of money on relievers.  Looking at the bullpens around the league and there are a lot of failed starters and other cheap acquisitions which became key bullpen pieces.  

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

No -- and after they sign a SS, given that Schoop can play 1st and Tork can play 3rd ( at least enough to give Candelario days off ) they will be able to find IF playing time for Kreidler if he continues to do well. And Cabrera will likely be down to 1 day a week at 1B at most.

 

Yes, if Kreidler is the real deal, they can find playing time for him eventually.  Schoop is only guaranteed one season, he can opt out of 2023 if he chooses.  Cabrera is close to 500 and who knows what sort of shape he will be in after 2022.

I think it'd be best to see what he can do in Toledo to start off 2022 and then go from there.

[Longgone]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

No doubt, he is someone to watch but I still wouldn't pass over a rare group of free agent shortstops because of him.  

Absolutely, I'm just saying developmental stats should be taken in context.

[Dan Gilmore]

57 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's always a good idea to acquire some cheap arms and see what your staff can do with them.  It's rarely a good idea to spend a lot of money on relievers.  Looking at the bullpens around the league and there are a lot of failed starters and other cheap acquisitions which became key bullpen pieces.  

My comment was that I don’t believe Avila will stop after getting a SS and Starter. I guess that could happen if they have a set budget and getting those two bumps up against the limit.

My assumption is that the FO is working on multiple possible signings or trades at any one time throughout the offseason and would pick up inexpensive players if the deal looked good regardless of position. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Dan Gilmore

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

My comment was that I don’t believe Avila will stop after getting a SS and Starter. I guess that could happen if they have a set budget and getting those two bumps up against the limit.

My assumption is that the FO is working on multiple possible signings or trades at any one time throughout the offseason and would pick up inexpensive players if the deal looked good regardless of position. 

I don't think it will stop there either, but I think SS and starter are the only places where they might spend big money.  I think anything else will be the usual off-season bargain shopping.  

[Tigermojo]

I'm sure they'll add whatever cheap arms they can. They needed a lot of guys this year and not all of them will be back next year.

[1776]

18 hours ago, casimir said:

No moves today?  What, Avila needed a nap after making one trade yesterday?

Avila is thinking ‘MLB Executive of the Year’ after that trade.

[RandyMarsh]

Reds passed on Miley's 10m option but unfortunately the Cubs already claimed him. 

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Reds passed on Miley's 10m option but unfortunately the Cubs already claimed him. 

wow. The Red's really went cheap - didn't even offer him the buyout. Surprised no other team was willing negotiate with the Reds to get him before they waived him as in the Barnhardt case. I guess the Cubs' scouting report must have been better than anyone else's.

[RandyMarsh]

I guess their GM said they tried to trade him the past couple weeks but there were no buyers. Idk I find that a little hard to believe but at the same time I guess he really doesnt have a reason to lie about it.

You think though that Avila would've tried to get him when he got Barnhart if that were the case. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by RandyMarsh

[theroundsquare]

suggests to me that the tigers didn't want him, or maybe the reds asking price in trade was too high

[RandyMarsh]

19 minutes ago, theroundsquare said:

suggests to me that the tigers didn't want him, or maybe the reds asking price in trade was too high

He definitely outpitched his peripherals last year but even if he is only a low 4 ERA like they suggest instead of the actual low 3 there is some value there. He's been pretty consistent in his innings pitched throughout his career so you could probably rely on him giving you 150+ innings of league average pitching at worst. I think that is well worth the 10 million but perhaps this means that Avila is aiming higher for his starting pitcher that he is after?

[theroundsquare]

let's hope

 

[1984Echoes]

23 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

... but perhaps this means that Avila is aiming higher for his starting pitcher that he is after?

This please.

[Tiger337]

Wade Miley would have been good with the 2019 Tigers.  The 2022 Tigers need to aim higher.  

[chasfh]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

Wade Miley would have been good with the 2019 Tigers.  The 2022 Tigers need to aim higher.  

Max Scherzer is about as high as you go can. Old as he is, he's definitely looking for multiple years at a humongous AAV, maybe 3/100. That would probably be a better bet than Verlander, even.

Maybe we take a run at Robbie Ray. He is a Devil We Know, and he has seemed to figure something out. The main problem with him is the that RA9-WAR is waaay higher than his regular WAR, which could lead to an over-projection.

 

[sabretooth]

What I have been hearing around here is...ehhh, maybe we can't or shouldn't land expensive players...maybe it's best if we stuck with:

- Tucker Barnhart, who will replace what Rogers/Greiner did in 2021 at Catcher (he's likely worse than Rogers and better than Greiner...maybe a slight improvement overall?)

- Alex Cobb or some other cheap starter replaces the pretty good 24 starts provided in 2021 by Turnbull and Boyd (we probably are worse off)

- Ryan Kreidler replaces the Castros at SS (an upgrade with the glove, who knows about the bat, maybe slightly better).

Plus some bargain hunting for a cheap reliever and other bench/org filler.

Sounds like a clear step back, considering that we're losing the pretty good 24 starts provided in 2021 by Turnbull and Boyd.

That would probably result in 70 - 75 wins

+ whatever Greene can do vs. what Mazara/Reyes did in 2021 (add 3-4 wins)

+ whatever Tork can do vs. the 2B guys from 2021 that Schoop will replace (add 3-4 wins).  

If everything works out, we are a little over .500....or basically about the same as 2021.

Meh.

We need to do a LOT better than Barhart, Cobb/whoever at SP, and Ryan freaking Kreidler.  No offense to Ryan freaking Kreidler.

[sabretooth]

48 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Wade Miley would have been good with the 2019 Tigers.  The 2022 Tigers need to aim higher.  

Yeah, exactly....God bless you for saying this.  Wade Miley indeed.

[sabretooth]

I have no problem with a Wade Miley type as our 5th starter with the hopes that he pulls off a nice season....but we need to add a clearly above-average pitcher for the front of the rotation.

Edited November 5, 2021 by sabretooth

[RandyMarsh]

26 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

What I have been hearing around here is...ehhh, maybe we can't or shouldn't land expensive players...maybe it's best if we stuck with:

- Tucker Barnhart, who will replace what Rogers/Greiner did in 2021 at Catcher (he's likely worse than Rogers and better than Greiner...maybe a slight improvement overall?)

- Alex Cobb or some other cheap starter replaces the pretty good 24 starts provided in 2021 by Turnbull and Boyd (we probably are worse off)

- Ryan Kreidler replaces the Castros at SS (an upgrade with the glove, who knows about the bat, maybe slightly better).

Plus some bargain hunting for a cheap reliever and other bench/org filler.

Sounds like a clear step back, considering that we're losing the pretty good 24 starts provided in 2021 by Turnbull and Boyd.

That would probably result in 70 - 75 wins

+ whatever Greene can do vs. what Mazara/Reyes did in 2021 (add 3-4 wins)

+ whatever Tork can do vs. the 2B guys from 2021 that Schoop will replace (add 3-4 wins).  

If everything works out, we are a little over .500....or basically about the same as 2021.

Meh.

We need to do a LOT better than Barhart, Cobb/whoever at SP, and Ryan freaking Kreidler.  No offense to Ryan freaking Kreidler.

They're also counting on some extra 120 or so innings from Manning,  Mize and Skubal with hopefully some progression. If they can produce a mid to upper 3ish ERA for those 120 innings that will go a long way. 

[Sports_Freak]

6 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think it will stop there either, but I think SS and starter are the only places where they might spend big money.  I think anything else will be the usual off-season bargain shopping.  

If they spend big on a SS and he's a bust, this rebuild will be ruined. It would set us back for years. So the question is, do we trust Al Avila to spend 100+ million $$?