2023 MLB Playoffs

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, oblong said:

I’ve said this before but I wouldn’t mind if this were done later in extras like the 11th or 12th. At that point I think both clubs just want to move on. You burn thru pitchers and it affects the upcoming games. Starting pitchers are brought out, position players… it gets silly.   I mean with the pitch clock proving to reduce games by a significant number it’s now ok to play real baseball for 2 or 3 more innings.  Then you can introduce gimmicks to just get it over with. But even doing that I don’t think is required.
 

Let the clubs employ an emergency starting pitcher that isn’t active but can be used after inning 10. You can rotate it every few games.  Let a AAA pitcher come up for 2 or 3 games to live the good life. No service time accrual unless they pitch but they get a ML salary. Then he can go back for his regular start and another comes up. You can figure out a rotation within their existing workload. Hockey has a similar setup with goalies. There’s always one on standby in case goalie  #2 gets hurt. It’s usually some beer league guy.  A few years ago in Toronto one of them came in and the team came back to win.  

I’ve seen player interviews in which they’ve said they like it, and it’s easy to see why: it gets them off work sooner.

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Manfred said the other day, that they are going to try to figure out a way to get staring pitchers to go back to pitching more innings because that's what fans want.  I don't think that can be done with a gimmick.  It would require some kind of substantial change.  Chas has suggested many times that deadening the ball would fix many of the games problems - too many strikeouts, not enough balls in play, starters getting burnt out.  The problem is they won't give up the long ball.    

I don’t think Baseball wants to give up the strikeout, either. Related to the K’s marketing value in highlight clip packages, I think a key reason has to do with how video games, combat sports , and superhero movies have led young guys to crave mano-a-mano competitions. Me against you. I die or you die. I strike you out or you hit a homer. A fight to the death every at bat. Baseball is trying to capture the demo that loves that stuff. I would bet if you did a two-question survey, “Which do you like better” and the two choices were “Either home run or strikeout” and “Any ball in play”, the former would have a really good chance of winning among under-35s.

I think pitchers really like the high strikeout era, too, in part because it gets them paid, and in part because it makes them look historically great striking out so many more guys than even the black-and-white Hall of Fame pitchers did. If any starting pitcher today had the same K/9 rate Bob Feller did, they wouldn’t even have a job. Freddy Peralta has one of the top 50 K/9 seasons in history. How else could he ever get on an historical Top 50 list? That’s a pretty decent brag.

[oblong]

In that aforementioned Posnanski book he talked about one of the old time pitchers, I can't remember which, but he was good enough to be on his top 100, that purposefully avoided strikeouts.  He wanted them to hit it.  He thought he was more effective at getting outs.  By going for strikeouts he risked hard hit balls.

[CMRivdogs]

Strikeouts are undemocratic, they're facist. 
 

 

[Tiger337]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think pitchers really like the high strikeout era, too, in part because it gets them paid, and in part because it makes them look historically great striking out so many more guys than even the black-and-white Hall of Fame pitchers did. If any starting pitcher today had the same K/9 rate Bob Feller did, they wouldn’t even have a job. Freddy Peralta has one of the top 50 K/9 seasons in history. How else could he ever get on an historical Top 50 list? That’s a pretty decent brag.

I don't doubt pitchers like K's, but I don't think it makes them look good historically compared to guys that had 20 CG and 20 wins. I don't care about pitcher wins, but they do which is why managers still try to get them through 5 innings.  

[chasfh]

9 minutes ago, oblong said:

In that aforementioned Posnanski book he talked about one of the old time pitchers, I can't remember which, but he was good enough to be on his top 100, that purposefully avoided strikeouts.  He wanted them to hit it.  He thought he was more effective at getting outs.  By going for strikeouts he risked hard hit balls.

Was it one of the dead ball guys? If so, then no wonder.

One of the other things about the game in those days was how big the ballparks were. It was nothing for a park to be 360 down the lines, 450 to center, and 400 in the alleys. Outfielders had to play deeper to prevent batted balls from getting by them and turning into inside-the-park home runs, which allow softer hit fliners and the like that would be caught today to drop in for hits. One reason there were so many qualified .300 hitters back then.

[RandyMarsh]

I know this has been going on for awhile now but I really am noticing it this year, probably due to having two smaller franchises in it(I'm talking in terms of main stream relevance not market size) but its crazy how irrelevant and forgotten the WS has been treated by the general public and media. 

Like its clearly behind regular season NFL and NCAA and now with it running later along with NBA starting earlier it is behind that as well. Aside from actual baseball writers my Twitter feed is all about other sports with no mention of the World Series.

Idk like I said I know this is an ongoing thing and giving the trend its not going to get any better any time soon but it really has hit home to me this year. Just makes me think back to my youth and even young adult years where the World Series was at the forefront of the Sports world when it started. 

[chasfh]

27 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't doubt pitchers like K's, but I don't think it makes them look good historically compared to guys that had 20 CG and 20 wins. I don't care about pitcher wins, but they do which is why managers still try to get them through 5 innings.  

I don't think under-35s care about wins or complete games, either. But they definitely care about stars, and I think high strikeout totals might be the sign of a pitching star to them.

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know this has been going on for awhile now but I really am noticing it this year, probably due to having two smaller franchises in it(I'm talking in terms of main stream relevance not market size) but its crazy how irrelevant and forgotten the WS has been treated by the general public and media. 

Like its clearly behind regular season NFL and NCAA and now with it running later along with NBA starting earlier it is behind that as well. Aside from actual baseball writers my Twitter feed is all about other sports with no mention of the World Series.

Idk like I said I know this is an ongoing thing and giving the trend its not going to get any better any time soon but it really has hit home to me this year. Just makes me think back to my youth and even young adult years where the World Series was at the forefront of the Sports world when it started. 

Baseball is to football in the US as cricket is to soccer in the UK.

[MIguy]

If you want more offense in baseball, just get rid of the pitchers mound.  

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know this has been going on for awhile now but I really am noticing it this year, probably due to having two smaller franchises in it(I'm talking in terms of main stream relevance not market size) but its crazy how irrelevant and forgotten the WS has been treated by the general public and media. 

Like its clearly behind regular season NFL and NCAA and now with it running later along with NBA starting earlier it is behind that as well. Aside from actual baseball writers my Twitter feed is all about other sports with no mention of the World Series.

Idk like I said I know this is an ongoing thing and giving the trend its not going to get any better any time soon but it really has hit home to me this year. Just makes me think back to my youth and even young adult years where the World Series was at the forefront of the Sports world when it started. 

My baseball twitter feed is people either complaining about too many teams in the playoffs or people trying to convince us that's not a problem.  But yeah, once the Tigers are out of it, it's mostly NCAA football and this year the Lions are finally winning so it's about them too.  

[Tiger337]

52 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Baseball is to football in the US as cricket is to soccer in the UK.

And the more they try to make it like football, the more irrelevant it seems to become.  I think their only hope now is the gambling audience.  

[KL2]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know this has been going on for awhile now but I really am noticing it this year, probably due to having two smaller franchises in it(I'm talking in terms of main stream relevance not market size) but its crazy how irrelevant and forgotten the WS has been treated by the general public and media. 

Like its clearly behind regular season NFL and NCAA and now with it running later along with NBA starting earlier it is behind that as well. Aside from actual baseball writers my Twitter feed is all about other sports with no mention of the World Series.

Idk like I said I know this is an ongoing thing and giving the trend its not going to get any better any time soon but it really has hit home to me this year. Just makes me think back to my youth and even young adult years where the World Series was at the forefront of the Sports world when it started. 

Not huge markets, no stars and its going crazy late. A recipe for a 'that is still going on' disaster

 

[oblong]

I think even bigger markets won't make a difference.  It would in ratings beause more people in those markets will watch, and by default those fans in other markets, but I don't think ratings matter much everywhere else.  A random person in Milwaukee or Charlotte or Alberquerque, not from Boston/NY/LA isn't going to be more likely watch the WS if those teams are in it.

It all comes down to the rise of other sports, especially football, and viewers having more options.  Until the explosion of cable and satellite, and streaming/DVR, viewers watched what was on.  And the World Series was often the only thing on at that time.  Now they can watch the NFL or a show on Hulu or Netflix.  People who watch TV have a backlog of shows/movies they have to get to.  

It's not because the game is suffering or did anything wrong.  

[chasfh]

 

 

[lordstanley]

Few outside of Detroit will recall that Frank Howard’s final season, 1973, was with the Tigers

 

[HeyAbbott]

10 hours ago, chasfh said:

Was it one of the dead ball guys? If so, then no wonder.

One of the other things about the game in those days was how big the ballparks were. It was nothing for a park to be 360 down the lines, 450 to center, and 400 in the alleys. Outfielders had to play deeper to prevent batted balls from getting by them and turning into inside-the-park home runs, which allow softer hit liners and the like that would be caught today to drop in for hits. One reason there were so many qualified .300 hitters back then.

Going way back, with the info I have:

Huntington Park first home of the Boston AL team-- 630 feet to center field.

The Polo grounds in New York-- 533 feet to center. The pictures of it show an enormous amount of foul teritory real estate.

Braves field in Boston-- well over 500 feet to center.

The old Yankee stadium before the monuments-- 461 feet to center, with short foul lines.

Forbes field 1935 dimensions 447 (?) feet to center.

The fair play area of many modern ball parks is much smaller, except when looking at older historic parks such as  Ebbets field( home of the Brooklyn Dodgers) and Baker Bowl, which is where the Phillies played until sharing Shibe Park with the Philadelphia  A's in the 1950's.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by HeyAbbott

[HeyAbbott]

10 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know this has been going on for awhile now but I really am noticing it this year, probably due to having two smaller franchises in it(I'm talking in terms of main stream relevance not market size) but its crazy how irrelevant and forgotten the WS has been treated by the general public and media. 

 

The mindless idiots that have ran the MLB have made virtually every mistake that one could make in running a pro sports league since before the Curt Flood decision.

The season is too dammed long and is being played in non-baseball weather for much of the country. The entire season should be over by October 15. Once the weather turns cool, most folks will look to the traditional indoor or cool weather sports such as football and basketball.

They have made a marathon season essentially meaningless by having too many teams in the playoffs. The season should start on May 1. The regular season should be done on August 31, and the playoffs should run September 1 October15.

The game faces many problems to stay pertinent, the least of which is that its marketing to younger fans (9-18) is horrible.

Finally, the only thing that Manfred seems to care about is to make sure the gamblers are happy and everything and everyone else be dammed. I can do without the continual display of the Vegas odds during a game. Then, in the same breath, MLB tells its players not to bet on games.

Well, I'd better adjust because its only a matter of time before every team makes the playoffs, and we will see posted odds on whether the first baseman will scratch his balls during the inning.

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

Few outside of Detroit will recall that Frank Howard’s final season, 1973, was with the Tigers

 

A giant among men and one of my favorites. I have a helmet, bat and ball with his signature and a picture of him leading the clubhouse celebration after the 1972 division championship clincher with his and many other's signature. What a dandy platoon with the Gator for Billy Martin.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, HeyAbbott said:

Going way back, with the info I have:

Huntington Park first home of the Boston AL team-- 630 feet to center field.

The Polo grounds in New York-- 533 feet to center. The pictures of it show an enormous amount of foul teritory real estate.

Braves field in Boston-- well over 500 feet to center.

The old Yankee stadium before the monuments-- 461 feet to center, with short foul lines.

Forbes field 1935 dimensions 447 (?) feet to center.

The fair play area of many modern ball parks is much smaller, except when looking at older historic parks such as  Ebbets field( home of the Brooklyn Dodgers) and Baker Bowl, which is where the Phillies played until sharing Shibe Park with the Philadelphia  A's in the 1950's.

 

Careful, you'll give Lynn Henning a heart attack.    

[MIguy]

Texas is gonna hate having to pay Scherzer 43 million next year.  I bet he doesn't even pitch 100 innings. 

[casimir]

11 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

The mindless idiots that have ran the MLB have made virtually every mistake that one could make in running a pro sports league since before the Curt Flood decision.

The season is too dammed long and is being played in non-baseball weather for much of the country. The entire season should be over by October 15. Once the weather turns cool, most folks will look to the traditional indoor or cool weather sports such as football and basketball.

They have made a marathon season essentially meaningless by having too many teams in the playoffs. The season should start on May 1. The regular season should be done on August 31, and the playoffs should run September 1 October15.

The game faces many problems to stay pertinent, the least of which is that its marketing to younger fans (9-18) is horrible.

Finally, the only thing that Manfred seems to care about is to make sure the gamblers are happy and everything and everyone else be dammed. I can do without the continual display of the Vegas odds during a game. Then, in the same breath, MLB tells its players not to bet on games.

Well, I'd better adjust because its only a matter of time before every team makes the playoffs, and we will see posted odds on whether the first baseman will scratch his balls during the inning.

How would you handle a regular season from May through August followed by playoffs for a month and a half?  How many teams would you bring into the playoffs and how would the playoffs work?

[casimir]

8 hours ago, MIguy said:

Texas is gonna hate having to pay Scherzer 43 million next year.  I bet he doesn't even pitch 100 innings. 

I don't know.  I think maybe he returned to the mound too quickly and really isn't ready to be pitching quite yet.  So, I think what we're seeing in the playoffs isn't necessarily how he'll perform next season.  Although as far as the salary goes, $43M is kind of a ridiculous price tag.

[mtutiger]

19 hours ago, oblong said:

I think even bigger markets won't make a difference.  It would in ratings beause more people in those markets will watch, and by default those fans in other markets, but I don't think ratings matter much everywhere else.  A random person in Milwaukee or Charlotte or Alberquerque, not from Boston/NY/LA isn't going to be more likely watch the WS if those teams are in it.

It all comes down to the rise of other sports, especially football, and viewers having more options.  Until the explosion of cable and satellite, and streaming/DVR, viewers watched what was on.  And the World Series was often the only thing on at that time.  Now they can watch the NFL or a show on Hulu or Netflix.  People who watch TV have a backlog of shows/movies they have to get to.  

It's not because the game is suffering or did anything wrong.  

Just my two cents: since moving across country, we have cut cable and this has had a significant impact on our ability to watch this year's postseason. Especially given that most non-WS games are on cable networks.

Maybe if the Tigers make it in future years I'll sign up for a service during the postseason, but I just didn't care enough to pay the money for that option this postseason.

Edited October 31, 2023 by mtutiger

[RatkoVarda]

Texas is "only" paying Max 22.5M next year; Mets pick up the rest