Lions 2022 Offseason Thread

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Let's first assume that at seasons end next year and after the combine and pro days, that CJ Stroud and Bryce Young are indeed the consensus top QBs. Let's also presume Stroud and Young are highly touted, top 10 prospects, unlike this years crop of QBs. What would we rather have . . . Goff plus the the 3 first round picks in 2023/2024 or take the gamble of knowing you will get one one of Stroud/Young when you trade up but will have given up the 3 picks to move up?

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Let's first assume that at seasons end next year and after the combine and pro days, that CJ Stroud and Bryce Young are indeed the consensus top QBs. Let's also presume Stroud and Young are highly touted, top 10 prospects, unlike this years crop of QBs. What would we rather have . . . Goff plus the the 3 first round picks in 2023/2024 or take the gamble of knowing you will get one one of Stroud/Young when you trade up but will have given up the 3 picks to move up?

Have to know what Goff looked like this season first....🤔

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

Have to know what Goff looked like this season first....🤔

this is the correct answer. I would lean towards Goff and the 3 picks. It wasn't that long ago when Goff was the hot new QB prospect and a team gave up multiple 1st round picks to get him. Those were the days when Goff and Wentz were going to dominate the league. 

[RandyMarsh]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Have to know what Goff looked like this season first....🤔

Yep, if Goff indeed does look like his early season self then you have to move on from him but if he looks like how he did to finish the year Im fine with keeping him and to continue to use assets to stock pile the rest of the team. 

[Motown Bombers]

Stafford put up QB ratings of 79, 84 and 85 in his age 24-26 seasons. Age 27 he got a new offensive coordinator and took off. Goff got a new offensive coordinator at age 27 and took off. 

[Jason_R]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Have to know what Goff looked like this season first....🤔

Yes, and is there any level of performance by Goff above which the haters would concede he should not be discarded for a lottery ticket?

[buddha]

9 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Yes, and is there any level of performance by Goff above which the haters would concede he should not be discarded for a lottery ticket?

as a certified goff skeptic, i would say yes.  if he performs well.

i just dont expect him to.

[Jason_R]

How about if next season he matches his career average passer rating of 91.5? Which, BTW, is good for 20th all time, just ahead of Matt Stafford. 

I’m not on his bandwagon or off his bandwagon. I just know QB is the hardest position to play in all of pro sports. And even a sure fire, can’t miss, generational prospect like Trevor Lawrence, not to mention most of the QBs who won the Heisman Trophy over the past decade, have disappointed as pros. 

The Lions are still very thin on the defensive back end. I would like to see them shore that up in next years draft before chasing a QB.

Caveat: In Brad I trust. 

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

How about if next season he matches his career average passer rating of 91.5? Which, BTW, is good for 20th all time, just ahead of Matt Stafford. 

I’m not on his bandwagon or off his bandwagon. I just know QB is the hardest position to play in all of pro sports. And even a sure fire, can’t miss, generational prospect like Trevor Lawrence, not to mention most of the QBs who won the Heisman Trophy over the past decade, have disappointed as pros. 

The Lions are still very thin on the defensive back end. I would like to see them shore that up in next years draft before chasing a QB.

Caveat: In Brad I trust. 

let me watch this season and then i'll decide what i think the lions need next season.

i watched jarad goff throw ducks all season long (even at the end when he was better), and spend half the year having zero pocket presence.  literally turning around in the pocket and running.  after campbell started calling plays he got better in the pocket but he was still throwing ducks amd checking down all the time.  

i hope he improves next year.  i dont think he was good last year, even if he was adequate at the very end.

[Jason_R]

Yeah he was Jekyll and Hyde last year. I couldn’t watch the end of some of those early games where he kept coughing it up. This year he will have far better weapons, better coaching, and hopefully more health on the OL. I’m assuming he will look respectable.

I’m also assuming Okudah’s ceiling is now as a rotational player not as a shutdown corner. I think next season Holmes will want his Jalen Ramsey.

If Goff looks respectable, they can build the defense for another year before they have to make a decision about whether to extend him. And with QB salary inflation as it has been, Goff’s salary won’t look quite so bad.

[Motor City Sonics]

We will certainly know if Goff has it this year.  There are no excuses.   They have 3 better receivers than they had in the first half of last year, even if the rookie doesn't play until October.   Reynolds was a huge addition, Chark helps that even more and St. Brown is now a force.   If he doesn't look good this year, you mortgage everything for a QB.  

[Motown Bombers]

There is also reason to believe he wasn't healthy the entire season. That Pittsburgh game he could barely throw the ball. 

[RedRamage]

17 hours ago, KL2 said:

The problem is several fold here:

1. Goff can't throw the ball more than 20 yards...
2. All of those teams including the Rams with Goff had something going for them... Do you expect them to figure it out now? 
3. Even if the ones you listed, only one won a superbowl. The goal isn't making the playoffs or winning a couple games. Its about winning the big game. 
4. You're counting on Goff playing like the last quarter, what if he plays like the first quarter?
5. While 27, Goff has been in the league for almost 7 years there is little likelyhood he improves on what he is. 

1. Maybe?  How much of not being able to throw deep was not having targets who could get open deep?
2. Maybe? We've obviously been trying to build up the rest of the team, especially the defense.
3. Let's walk before we run... let's just worry about getting to the playoffs first before we target a SB victory. (More on this later)
4. This is a valid question, though it's worth pointing out at Goff improved under Campbell's play calling, so there's a legit reason to think that he will be more like second half Goff rather than first half.
5. I think most people aren't expecting improvement.

Now, imho #3 is the biggie here. Can we expect Goff to be a guy who can lead us to the playoffs regularly, win some of those game, get us (eventually) to a SB and (assuming Hell freezes over) win a SB? Not next year, no.  I would lay just about any amount of money on the Lions NOT winning the SB in the 2022 season.

But (and this is key) right now we're only looking at using Goff for the 2022 season. Not taking a QB in the draft or trade for one or signing a free agent now does NOT mean the Lions are locked into Goff beyond 2022... heck, we're not even locked in for 2022. If he stinks up the place so bad it's scary we don't HAVE to play him. 

Unless I'm very much mistaken people are aren't saying we should commit to Goff and only Goff for the next 4-5 years. I believe people are saying: "We could be competitive this year maybe... and hey if Goff shows massive improvement maybe we stick with him long term. If he doesn't, we look at addressing QB next off season."

Quote

Now, you could keep Goff and hope all those things become true or break the lions way or work to find an elite QB which makes everybody around him better. The second one seems slightly easier to find than building a crazy elite team Rob Johnson style. 

One could argue that that's what the Lions were doing with Stafford.  We know how that worked out.  The front offices couldn't build a good enough team around him.

[RedRamage]

14 hours ago, buddha said:

as a certified goff skeptic, i would say yes.  if he performs well.

i just dont expect him to.

100% agreed.  The questions of course is how to measure "performs well."

[Motown Bombers]

I think Goff was injured for much of the season. 

[sabretooth]

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/02/lions-jeff-okudah-injury-update-video-workout/

Seems encouraging...thoughts?

[Hongbit]

That’s a clip from 2017.    That guy only exists today in memories.   His inability to consistently get the ball downfield is one of the big things that wore thin with McVey.    

The recent is all that matters and Goff was arguably the worst starting QB in the league for the first 10-11 games.   I was happy to seem him play better the last part but I don’t put much weight into those ganes since he had no pressure or expectations on him.  Dealing with those two things are more than half the battle for a QB.   He’s got weapons and new OC so maybe he can build off this positive and start to become someone that can be counted on.   I’m definitely skeptical but I’ve got an open mind.  Time will tell.   

I’m not sure what level of injuries Goff. played with last year but everyone in the league now has to manage through something.  I’m not sure how anyone can say either way whether an injury impacted him or not.   Nobody has that real information. I can say they Stafford really spoiled us on that with the things he was able to play through without any noticeable impact on his arm.  One of his finest attributes.   Tough MF  

 

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2022/05/02/lions-jeff-okudah-injury-update-video-workout/

Seems encouraging...thoughts?

okudah was bad before he got hurt, then suffered a devastating injury and missed an entire season.  if we get anything out of okudah at this point its a bonus.

[buddha]

goff had one of the lowest yards per pass thrown in the league last year.  there was a lot of checking down, dinking and dunking.  i think a lot of that is on goff and - as has been mentioned - why the rams moved on from him during the season and then traded him for a qb who throws downfield quite often and quite well.

that doesnt mean goff cant succeed, but it is a potential red flag for his future success in pushing the ball downfield.

we all saw goff last year, we dont need to pretend he was good.  he wasnt.

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

goff had one of the lowest yards per pass thrown in the league last year.  there was a lot of checking down, dinking and dunking.  i think a lot of that is on goff and - as has been mentioned - why the rams moved on from him during the season and then traded him for a qb who throws downfield quite often and quite well.

that doesnt mean goff cant succeed, but it is a potential red flag for his future success in pushing the ball downfield.

we all saw goff last year, we dont need to pretend he was good.  he wasnt.

We all saw Kalif Raymond and Hodge as his main downfield targets, we don't need to pretend they were good. They weren't. 

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

okudah was bad before he got hurt, then suffered a devastating injury and missed an entire season.  if we get anything out of okudah at this point its a bonus.

It seemed odd to me that they only took one corner and took him so late. So they seem to have confidence in who they have, whether that includes Okudah or not.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

It seemed odd to me that they only took one corner and took him so late. So they seem to have confidence in who they have, whether that includes Okudah or not.

They also drafted a corner in the 3rd round last year. They only have so many picks and holes. If they drafted a corner instead of another position then we would have the same conversation but just insert the different position. 

[gehringer_2]

29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They also drafted a corner in the 3rd round last year. They only have so many picks and holes. If they drafted a corner instead of another position then we would have the same conversation but just insert the different position. 

sure - but CB and DE sure seem to be the hot positions to stock up on across the league.

Actually to finish the thought, the connection is whether they must think they still have something in Okudah.

Edited May 4, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

sure - but CB and DE sure seem to be the hot positions to stock up on across the league.

And the Lions stocked up on DE. There are only so many picks to go around and they did draft a safety in the 3rd round. 

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

And the Lions stocked up on DE. There are only so many picks to go around and they did draft a safety in the 3rd round. 

A couple of CB in the UDFA, but no guaranteed money to either which went to two OL and two TE. Smash mouth anyone?

Edited May 4, 2022 by gehringer_2