gehringer_2 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 24 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Schoop is a streaky hitter so he has a bad year and next will be a great year. Yeah yeah that's the ticket. There was a guy like that who would have alternating good and bad seasons. I forget his name. Since 2013 Bryce Harper has had a pretty good string of big odd numbered years, meh even numbered years. Assuming he comes back this year and finishes with 3.0 WAR (he's at 2.5 now), then in his last 5 odd years he has 28.5 WAR, while in his last 5 even years he has 9.3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: With how he has played this year, there's a less than 0% chance that Schoop is giving up $7 mil to test the market. With the holes they have and with the market as it is, it's hard to see them with any other option than biting the bullet and rolling with him at second. Chris either want to win, or he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Chris either want to win, or he doesn't. Even if the Tigers are one of the most aggressive teams in free agency, it doesn't guarantee that they would be able to replace 2/3rds of their lineup in one offseason through free agency. It just is what it is.... Edited August 16, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: Chris either want to win, or he doesn't. I'm not sure if you're being serious here, but with so many holes and a weak free agent class, it's going to be hard make all the needed changes even with a major payroll boost. So, I think they'll keep Schoop and look to make upgrades elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I'm not sure if you're being serious here, but with so many holes and a weak free agent class, it's going to be hard make all the needed changes even with a major payroll boost. So, I think they'll keep Schoop and look to make upgrades elsewhere. Maybe someone has the patience to do the search, but I'm sure we could develop a good estimate of the probability that a guy who has a year as bad at Schoop's *in-the-absence-of-injury* comes back at age 31 with a good season. I need to be persuaded there is any real chance. The only real hope I have is that it's because the Tigers, as a team, are screwing up their hitters in some detrimental way that new management could change. But since it seems probable that Hinch isn't going anywhere, then that is not likely to change either. Edited August 16, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Go back and look at the last 20 posts on this thread. We have 2 of 8 position players that are probably going to be somewhat ok, mainly Greene and Baez. We are looking for a minimum of 6 position players. Maybe 2 OFrs step up. Maybe we trust Tork to hit and take care of 1B, which will be a titanic leap of faith. We need a new 3B. We need Miggy gone. Maybe the catcher is filled internally. I sure as heck hope we hit on some internal options or 2023's team in action will be less exciting then watching white paint dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 sign correa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Maybe someone has the patience to do the search, but I'm sure we could develop a good estimate of the probability that a guy who has a year as bad at Schoop's *in-the-absence-of-injury* comes back at age 31 with a good season. I need to be persuaded there is any real chance. The only real hope I have is that it's because the Tigers, as a team, are screwing up their hitters in some detrimental way that new management could change. But since it seems probable that Hinch isn't going anywhere, if that is the case it's not going to change. He won't get on base, but I can see him getting back to 20 homers with strong defense which would make him worth more than they are paying him. Even if he doesn't bounce back, so many upgrades are needed they probably won't be able to make all of them even if Ilitch goes to a 200 million payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 I can't think of any player in particular but it sure would be nice if we could end up getting a reasonably priced FA that ends up contributing, kinda like how Grossman did for us last year or a complete castoff that ends up breaking out for us. It seems like the good teams find these guys regularly and outside of JD and Peralta we never do, that was 8 years ago with JD and over 10 with Peralta so I'd say we're due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He won't get on base, but I can see him getting back to 20 homers with strong defense which would make him worth more than they are paying him. Even if he doesn't bounce back, so many upgrades are needed they probably won't be able to make all of them even if Ilitch goes to a 200 million payroll. It's just depressing that we are back in a rut where we are going to commit to a guy who's probably going to be terrible just because we owe him more money than one of the other guys who is terrible, who we will cut but who then will go on to have a good year for someone else...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I can't think of any player in particular but it sure would be nice if we could end up getting a reasonably priced FA that ends up contributing, kinda like how Grossman did for us last year or a complete castoff that ends up breaking out for us. It seems like the good teams find these guys regularly and outside of JD and Peralta we never do, that was 8 years ago with JD and over 10 with Peralta so I'd say we're due. I don't know if it's purely an Al thing or someone else, but I said it a while ago, it's honestly surprises me how little creativity this team has used even just within this year in terms of trying out different guys, whether they be in the minor league system currently or on the DFA market. And particularly with DFAs, maybe I'm wrong, but the perception that I have is that this org is really conservative on the waiver wire. Even among teams that have had more success or have turned it around, such as the Dodgers or the Orioles (who have guys on their roster *today* that were previously claimed or were cast off from elsewhere) Edited August 16, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Schoop's peripherals like BB%, K%, LD%, GB%, FB% are all inline with his career norms where up until this year he was an average or slightly above average hitter, the only difference is his BABIP and HR/FB% have plummeted. That could be due to the new ball or it could just be bad luck, for our sake lets hope it's the latter cause he still is only 30 years old so it's not like he is at the age where you expect him to fall off a cliff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 50 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said: Go back and look at the last 20 posts on this thread. We have 2 of 8 position players that are probably going to be somewhat ok, mainly Greene and Baez. We are looking for a minimum of 6 position players. Maybe 2 OFrs step up. Maybe we trust Tork to hit and take care of 1B, which will be a titanic leap of faith. We need a new 3B. We need Miggy gone. Maybe the catcher is filled internally. I sure as heck hope we hit on some internal options or 2023's team in action will be less exciting then watching white paint dry. The team just has a lot of unknowns internally.... Tork and Meadows seem like the biggest - if we hard a better read on if or both of them were able to perform more like projected, you could start to see how adding just an OF and IF piece can help make the team more respectable. But it's hard to see that when they are both still out of the picture and performing not well down in Toledo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: It's just depressing that we are back in a rut where we are going to commit to a guy who's probably going to be terrible just because we owe him more money than one of the other guys who is terrible, who we will cut but who then will go on to have a good year for someone else...... yeah, but if they cut Schoop, then he'll have a good year for someone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: With how he has played this year, there's a less than 0% chance that Schoop is giving up $7 mil to test the market. With the holes they have and with the market as it is, it's hard to see them with any other option than biting the bullet and rolling with him at second. They can always release him and eat the salary. It's not an ideal move, but sometimes that's what you have to do in order to move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 hours ago, sabretooth said: Look, I wanted to get rid of Schoop, but his elite D makes him valuable. Given his age, I highly doubt his elite defense is sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said: Given his age, I highly doubt his elite defense is sustainable. I probably wouldn't bet on him repeating his defensive performance this year cause he's one of if not the best defenders at 2B but I also wouldn't bet on it completely falling off next year. He's only 30, we saw Kinsler keep his elite D here till his mid 30s so there's no reason to think Schoop can't do it for one more year. Edited August 16, 2022 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said: Given his age, I highly doubt his elite defense is sustainable. Maybe not, but I also doubt he repeats being this bad on offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Cutting Schoop increases the chance that Willi is on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 On the bright side if we can get good pitching like we've been getting next year we could be alright with even a half way decent offense. On the other hand if our pitching regresses next year and our offense continues to be hopeless things could get even uglier than they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Cutting Schoop increases the chance that Willi is on the team. Thanks for reminding us of the crapshow utility guy situation lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Cutting Schoop increases the chance that Willi is on the team. This man knows how to make a sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 New GM kicks Willi to the curb. Avila watching from afar: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said: Cutting Schoop increases the chance that Willi is on the team. Not if the new GM dumps or trades Willi. Then it increases the chance that Clemens is on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 And if Clemens continues to be bad at age 27, that increases the chance that Zach Short is on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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