Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[buddha]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

you said "i dont think i mentioned you" but you specifically quoted my post and then called me out specifically and insulted me.

lol.  this is nuts.

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

but the vaccines dont stop the spread of omicron. you can be vaxxed and still spread it.  so why have vaccine mandates to get into a reataurant if the vaccine does not stop the spread of the virus?  you can still spread it if youre vaccinated.

 

I'll type really slow...try to keep up.

Vaccines keep people out of the hospitals. Vaccines keep people alive. So yes, you need to be vaccinated to get into certain places. If you don't like it, move. Or stay home. I really dgaf.

[smr-nj]

Leave your snark at the door, please.

TY

[Sports_Freak]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

you said "i dont think i mentioned you" but you specifically quoted my post and then called me out specifically and insulted me.

lol.  this is nuts.

I actually had to go back to see why I would possibly quote you. Then I realized you were crying about needing to be vaccinated to get into a restaurant (where you live). So...once again, I had to explain basic facts about the vaccine to you. And yes, anti-vaxxers ARE nuts.

[smr-nj]

[Motown Bombers]

12 minutes ago, buddha said:

but the vaccines dont stop the spread of omicron. you can be vaxxed and still spread it.  so why have vaccine mandates to get into a reataurant if the vaccine does not stop the spread of the virus?  you can still spread it if youre vaccinated.

 

I'll go out on a limb to say it's to stop the spread of death and serious illness. 

[Motown Bombers]

It's interesting the contrast between Chicago's murders are out of control and why do I have to be inconvenienced with mandates even though COVID related deaths far exceed murders in Chicago. 

[mtutiger]

With respect to this mask mandate discussion, I decided to go ahead and consult the crosstabs of the latest poll of the red state that I reside in (survey taken during mid- late January by Dallas Morning News/UT-Tyler) - https://www.uttyler.edu/politicalscience/files/dmn-uttyler-jan2022.pdf)

On the question of whether masking in schools, require/allow schools to decide was combined for 69% of respondents, 25% said no mandate at all. Local governments being allowed to require masks in some public places was 57-35 in support. Again, this isn't New York or Illinois or California. This is Texas.

When I see numbers like this and then I see this debate about how long masking should go on and how unpopular it is broadly, it just doesn't seem tethered to reality.

There will be an inflection point most likely where masks will be underwater. Particularly if Omicron crashes and burns. We just aren't there yet.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[Jim Cowan]

38 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

Move your hands, I have a couple of steel needles to stick in your eyes.

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

With respect to this mask mandate discussion, I decided to go ahead and consult the crosstabs of the latest poll of the red state that I reside in (survey taken during mid- late January by Dallas Morning News/UT-Tyler) - https://www.uttyler.edu/politicalscience/files/dmn-uttyler-jan2022.pdf)

On the question of whether masking in schools, require/allow schools to decide was combined for 69% of respondents, 25% said no mandate at all. Local governments requiring masks in some public places was 57-35 in support. Again, this isn't New York or Illinois or California. This is Texas.

When I see numbers like this and then I see this debate about how long masking should go on and how unpopular it is broadly, it just doesn't seem tethered to reality.

There will be an inflection point most likely where masks will be underwater. Particularly if Omicron crashes and burns. We just aren't there yet.

and I think the recent CDC paper did another serious disservice by not making clear the distinction between masking as a personal protection strategy and masking as a public health transmission reduction strategy. They are different things completely and even the professionals constantly forget to keep the distinction clear. Masks don't have to be particularly effective at preventing individual exposure to still be effective at reducing community spread. This had been a fundamental and continuing point of confusion about masking from the beginning of the pandemic and the clarity on it just never gets any better.

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Move your hands, I have a couple of steel needles to stick in your eyes.

This is a new conspiracy. I didn't know the liberals were giving people vaccines in the eyeballs. 

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

This is a new conspiracy. I didn't know the liberals were giving people vaccines in the eyeballs. 

The the new micro chip locks right onto the retina and your world will be rosy from then on......

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

The the new micro chip locks right onto the retina and your world will be rosy from then on......

Or it allows the government to see what I see. I've seen some things man...

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Or it allows the government to see what I see. I've seen some things man...

This would be the Microsoft version of "Windows on the soul"?

Edited February 6, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

54 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'll go out on a limb to say it's to stop the spread of death and serious illness. 

i agree.  but it doesnt stop the spread of omicron.  the point of keeping people out of restaurants and bars unless they were vaccinated was to slow the spread.  but it doesnt slow the spread, which undercuts the purpose.

in fact, the stated purpose has now changed from slowing the spread to incentivizing people to get vaccinated.  which, ok, but the original reasoning was - again - flawed.

[buddha]

55 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's interesting the contrast between Chicago's murders are out of control and why do I have to be inconvenienced with mandates even though COVID related deaths far exceed murders in Chicago. 

but i'm not saying "why do i have to be inconvenienced with mandates" i'm saying that the stated reasoning behind the mandates is wrong.  

to latch onto g2's post about the cdc, the messaging through this whole process has been horrible and oftentimes wrong.  which opens the door to people to question the whole messaging process.  some of that comes from the need for immediacy of knowledge, but some of it is from political pressure.

the cdc has come out of this whole thing looking very poorly.

[oblong]

Vaccines do slow the spread. It doesn’t prevent everyone from getting it and spreading it but over time a mix of 1,000 vaccinated people will spread less virus than a mix of 1,000 vaxxed and unvaxxed. Even if it’s marginal, the act of requiring masks and vaccines is a small thing to ask. If people don’t want to do their part then don’t participate in society. To live in your hole. Going to a restaurant is not needed to survive.  I’m not sure where the idea that you are just as likely to get infected and spread it whether vaxxed or not came from but it’s not true. 

[mtutiger]

40 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and I think the recent CDC paper did another serious disservice by not making clear the distinction between masking as a personal protection strategy and masking as a public health transmission reduction strategy. They are different things completely and even the professionals constantly forget to keep the distinction clear. Masks don't have to be particularly effective at preventing individual exposure to still be effective at reducing community spread. This had been a fundamental and continuing point of confusion about masking from the beginning of the pandemic and the clarity on it just never gets any better.

I think this is right. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

6 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I think a lot of people claim to be independent but they really aren't. It's like the people who up on the nigh before the election claim to be undecided who they will vote for. They just want attention. 

I think it's because both parties are terrible and people are embarrassed to belong to a party.   I will never belong to a party because they are both more interested in serving Wall Street than the people.  I have generally voted Democrat because the stuff they pretend to care about is better than the stuff the  Republicans pretend to care about.  Plus, the Republican party is now a pathetic joke ever since Trump took over.     

[Dan Gilmore]

25 minutes ago, oblong said:

Vaccines do slow the spread. It doesn’t prevent everyone from getting it and spreading it but over time a mix of 1,000 vaccinated people will spread less virus than a mix of 1,000 vaxxed and unvaxxed. Even if it’s marginal, the act of requiring masks and vaccines is a small thing to ask. If people don’t want to do their part then don’t participate in society. To live in your hole. Going to a restaurant is not needed to survive.  I’m not sure where the idea that you are just as likely to get infected and spread it whether vaxxed or not came from but it’s not true. 

This was my perspective too (along with the point G2 made about the difference in personal health and community health relating to masks). The vaccines don’t STOP the virus but they DO slow the spread. Mostly through reduction in loads and making the vaxxed person a less effective carrier. Is that not correct?

[Dan Gilmore]

So in a restaurant setting, your chances of the person sitting ten feet away giving you covid are lessened if they have been vaxxed. Not perfect, not ideal, but lessened. 

[Tigeraholic1]

3 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

That's because SO MANY on the right are racist, sexist and anti-vaxxers. Look at King Trump. Is there an American politician as bad as he is on SO many issues? Or do you agree with his aggressive form of leading the GOP?

No of course not, he is/was a fool. As are the many who thought he holds the key to their power control basically sold their soul.

These idiots don’t represent me or my beliefs. Neither do the far left who think killing babies, letting boys pretend to be girls and play girl sports or wiping student loan debt among other things.

Biden is moderate and I think he is doing great. Other than the way he pulled out of Afghanistan I would vote for him if Trump or one of his cronies run against him.

[buddha]

41 minutes ago, oblong said:

Vaccines do slow the spread. It doesn’t prevent everyone from getting it and spreading it but over time a mix of 1,000 vaccinated people will spread less virus than a mix of 1,000 vaxxed and unvaxxed. Even if it’s marginal, the act of requiring masks and vaccines is a small thing to ask. If people don’t want to do their part then don’t participate in society. To live in your hole. Going to a restaurant is not needed to survive.  I’m not sure where the idea that you are just as likely to get infected and spread it whether vaxxed or not came from but it’s not true. 

i dont think that's true with omicron.  it was with delta and alpha but not with omicron.  which makes sense considering thw vaccines were made to counter alpha and delta.

what the vaccines do is increase the chances that you will only see mild symptoms.  and with omicron being milder in general, that's doubly helpful.  but it doesnt stop or slow omicron.  you can pass omicron whether youre vaxxed or not.

denmark is fully open now even though they have a very high number of cases and a very high vax rate.  why?  cause the hospitals arent in danger and the symptoms of omicron are usually milder.  they opened up despite having a high case count.

this is not an anti-vax position.  its what the data is telling us.

[Tigeraholic1]

31 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont think that's true with omicron.  it was with delta and alpha but not with omicron.  which makes sense considering thw vaccines were made to counter alpha and delta.

what the vaccines do is increase the chances that you will only see mild symptoms.  and with omicron being milder in general, that's doubly helpful.  but it doesnt stop or slow omicron.  you can pass omicron whether youre vaxxed or not.

denmark is fully open now even though they have a very high number of cases and a very high vax rate.  why?  cause the hospitals arent in danger and the symptoms of omicron are usually milder.  they opened up despite having a high case count.

this is not an anti-vax position.  its what the data is telling us.

This is exactly what my point was about Indiana. As a state it’s not better than any other state probably worse in a lot of categories actually. However it’s a case study looking at nearly wide open geographical location. With a much lower vaxx rate than Denmark BUT very similar results.
 

[gehringer_2]

40 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont think that's true with omicron.  it was with delta and alpha but not with omicron

I think what is still missed when it is said that vaxxed people are still infectious with Omicron is that will still likely have a shorter period of infection - you may even be asymptomatic. You will shed virus for fewer days if you have an asymptomatic case than if you are unvaxxed and have symptoms for several days. CDC says you are infectious until X (5?/10?) days after your symptoms are gone so if they are gone sooner you are infections for less days. You count from the day your symptoms end.  So you can spread under both circumstances, but since you will shed fewer days if vaxxed and have a shorter course, you will spread less over less time and so less in practice. That said, another argument with omicron was that it is *so* infectious that you don't get the R value to less than 1.0 even among a fully vaxxed population, but that has clearly not really turned out to be true because Omicron is fading fast and and clearly *everybody* didn't get it in this round.

Edited February 6, 2022 by gehringer_2