What Are You Listening To?

[romad1]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't remember Japanese pressings, but I was buying records mostly before your time, maybe they hadn't become current. Then it was DGG that used to be the gold standard for highest quality vinyl. Philips wasn't bad either IIRC. My recollection would be that US and Brit pop/rock labels were mostly just unpredictable. I don't know if somehow the artists could have a hand in enforcing quality on their stuff but LZep vinyls tended to be pretty good. But poor quality on a vinyl LP wasn't necessarily in the pressing, it could as easily be compromises made in the production and mastering such as compression range, play length etc.

found this

https://www.rarerecords.net/record-info/japanese-records/

[romad1]

1 minute ago, romad1 said:

found this

https://www.rarerecords.net/record-info/japanese-records/

and this

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/japanese-pressings-are-they-the-best-quality-vinyl-and-what-do-you-have.849853/

some interesting comments

[gehringer_2]

42 minutes ago, romad1 said:

and this

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/japanese-pressings-are-they-the-best-quality-vinyl-and-what-do-you-have.849853/

some interesting comments

of course the bottom line physics is that anyone listening to vinyl in the digital age is deluding themselves.

[romad1]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

of course the bottom line physics is that anyone listening to vinyl in the digital age is deluding themselves.

well, there is the digital compression issue.  There is also the issue that for most of us, our ears are not that trained to hear a difference in high end audio. 

My interest was academic.  I just had that memory of making a special trip to the store in Ann Arbor from Livonia and seeing those "magic" Japanese pressings.

[gehringer_2]

13 minutes ago, romad1 said:

There is also the issue that for most of us, our ears are not that trained to hear a difference in high end audio.

In fact it's exactly the opposite. The Boomers grew up conditioned to hearing all their music over the analog artifacts of the day, which is fine - if that sounds like home to you I have no problem - spin away, but don't try to tell other people it's 'better' reproduction, it's not.

What is true it that digital tech exposes poor production in a way analog did not. You have to pay a lot more attention to ambience and what's happening down at the bottom of the signal that you could just ignore in the day when the vinyl scrap would bury it for you.

Edited July 22, 2023 by gehringer_2

[romad1]

39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

In fact it's exactly the opposite. The Boomers grew up conditioned to hearing all their music over the analog artifacts of the day, which is fine - if that sounds like home to you I have no problem - spin away, but don't try to tell other people it's 'better' reproduction, it's not.

What is true it that digital tech exposes poor production in a way analog did not. You have to pay a lot more attention to ambience and what's happening down at the bottom of the signal that you could just ignore in the day when the vinyl scrap would bury it for you.

The boomers grew up conditioned to have it all their way.  

[chasfh]

On 7/21/2023 at 5:36 PM, romad1 said:

question for audiophiles:  Back in the day a highly anticipated trip to a record store would have me looking at the Japanese pressings of albums.  Were they actually superior in audio quality than regular vinyl? 

 

 

I remember hearing that Japanese and European pressings sounded better because they were pressed on “virgin vinyl”, whereas American pressings were on recycled vinyl. That was some 40 years ago, though. I have a pretty good ear but I can’t tell whether I actually heard the difference, or simply told myself I could. Remember half-speed masters? Same thing. Sound was probably related to the quality of your equipment than anything else.

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I remember hearing that Japanese and European pressings sounded better because they were pressed on “virgin vinyl”, whereas American pressings were on recycled vinyl. That was some 40 years ago, though. I have a pretty good ear but I can’t tell whether I actually heard the difference, or simply told myself I could. Remember half-speed masters? Same thing. Sound was probably related to the quality of your equipment than anything else.

Yes for sure.  I do know that when I had a very nice [insert brand name] rack system back in the day I could definitely tell the difference between brands of speakers.  My [brand] studio monitors were better than some jive [brand]  loudspeakers.   The quality of production mattered too.  We definitely thought that certain bands had higher quality of production. 

Not to get into specifics because what I thought was good wasn't the absolute audiophile stuff but I had good stuff for what a GI on enlisted pay could get if he saved all his pennies, didn't fly home to the US more than once a year, and only drank so much. 

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Yes for sure.  I do know that when I had a very nice [insert brand name] rack system back in the day I could definitely tell the difference between brands of speakers.  My [brand] studio monitors were better than some jive [brand]  loudspeakers.   The quality of production mattered too.  We definitely thought that certain bands had higher quality of production. 

Not to get into specifics because what I thought was good wasn't the absolute audiophile stuff but I had good stuff for what a GI on enlisted pay could get if he saved all his pennies, didn't fly home to the US more than once a year, and only drank so much. 

I’m sure you could tell the different between virgin and recycled vinyl on your rig than I ever could on whatever it was I was using.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’m sure you could tell the different between virgin and recycled vinyl on your rig than I ever could on whatever it was I was using.

I don't think I ever spent the extra couple bucks for any of the Japanese pressings.  Don't know why.

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, romad1 said:

I don't think I ever spent the extra couple bucks for any of the Japanese pressings.  Don't know why.

I did for certain Beatles discs when I was way way into them. Also spent for UK Parlaphones, as well as Magical Mystery Tour from West Germany, which was the only version that had the final three songs in stereo. Also got a Japanese bootleg where She’s a Woman and Yes It Is were in stereo. That’s what I spent hundreds of my extra bucks on. Now everyone can get all these versions for practically free. That’s OK.

[gehringer_2]

14 hours ago, chasfh said:

I’m sure you could tell the different between virgin and recycled vinyl on your rig than I ever could on whatever it was I was using.

Even if you don't have a great musical ear, it's easy to hear the noise type and level of vinyl by listening to the run-out grooves. Whatever you hear there exists under all the music as well.

But that isn't even the last word. What you really care about signal to noise ratio. You can put a recording on quiet vinyl and still have a worse S/N ratio if the producers crammed too much time on the side and sacrificed signal level to do it, which was not uncommon. This was a bigger issue with classical recordings because the music doesn't always divide into convenient chunks for ~18 minute sides, but pop/rock groups also occasionally had their reasons for wanting to push the times up on their releases.

Edited July 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

15 hours ago, chasfh said:

recycled vinyl.

'Virgin' is sort of misnomer to ever apply to vinyl. And vinyl is almost never recycled. And certainly in the early days there probably wasn't much recycled material of any kind around. But recyclers generally don't take vinyl because vinyl is never a pure material to begin with, it always contains various chemical fillers know as plasticizers to prevent it from being brittle, so if even if you want to reprocess it you don't know what you are going to end up with, and the other big problem is that it emits lots of acid when you start reprocessing it - bad for your equipment! But that doesn't mean you didn't have vinyl with other recycled materials materials added to it. And like most polymers, even with 'virgin' material there are big differences in original production chemistry, mechanical properties and quality available on the market.

*https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2023/01/pvc-plastics-now-recyclable-after-breakthrough-by-michigan-scientists.html

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

'Virgin' is sort of misnomer to ever apply to vinyl. And vinyl is almost never recycled. And certainly in the early days there probably wasn't much recycled material of any kind around. But recyclers generally don't take vinyl because vinyl is never a pure material to begin with, it always contains various chemical fillers know as plasticizers to prevent it from being brittle, so if even if you want to reprocess it you don't know what you are going to end up with, and the other big problem is that it emits lots of acid when you start reprocessing it - bad for your equipment! But that doesn't mean you didn't have vinyl with other recycled materials materials added to it. And like most polymers, even with 'virgin' material there are big differences in original production chemistry, mechanical properties and quality available on the market.

*https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2023/01/pvc-plastics-now-recyclable-after-breakthrough-by-michigan-scientists.html

Counterpoint: technically imprecise though their usage may be, the terms are still prevalent in the industry.

https://www.unifiedmanufacturing.com/blog/how-do-i-know-if-im-getting-quality-vinyl-record-pressing/#virgin-vinyl-or-recycled-vinyl

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Counterpoint: technically imprecise though their usage may be, the terms are still prevalent in the industry.

https://www.unifiedmanufacturing.com/blog/how-do-i-know-if-im-getting-quality-vinyl-record-pressing/#virgin-vinyl-or-recycled-vinyl

 

If it's on the internet it must be true? (j/k)

I'm sure the term 'virgin' vinyl has an underlying meaning related to it's quality, but what exactly that means is probably squishy.

But seriously, you have to remain a little skeptical though, knowledge of chemical and polymer processing tech is extremely esoteric, and the vast majority of sources are just regurgitating things 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand or worse. Plus the plastics industry is part of the oil and chemicals sector, where lying through their teeth to the public is matter of course so there is always a lot of misinformation out there even from 'official' sources. The industry would love people to believe they do things like recycle PVC without actually doing it. Could a record company recycle just its own stock to its presses  - yeah but delabeling and handling might not save them much money - PVC isn't an expensive material.

I worked in the book business when I was in college and publishers usually took overstock books back for some level of credit. The books didn't get recycled, they were destroyed (or resold to other stores where there was demand) to prevent them ending up in discount bins and undercutting new sale prices. In fact with paperback trade books, they didn't even want to pay for the return shipping of the whole book, you could get credit for just tearing the covers off and returning those as proof the stock was no longer merchantable!

Given the chemical issues in actually reprocessing PVC, I wouldn't discount that motivation for record companies wanting unsold stock back as well regardless of what they claimed about what they did with the returned stock. 😱

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

Interesting how so many people attacked Sinead O'Connor for ripping up that picture.  Before that night, she'd been trying to bring up child abuse in the Catholic church and nobody would listen.   So she went to an extreme length.    Guess what - she was right all along.   Her career tanked after that.  Too bad it took another 15 years for the rest of the world to catch up and start doing something about it (not enough, though). 

Great song, from a great movie too.   R.I.P. Sinead. 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Motor City Sonics

[Mr.TaterSalad]

RIP Randy Meisner of The Eagles.

 

[Crazy Cat Gentleman]

I just found out that the guy who runs my favorite food cart also plays bass for this band:

unfortunately, I found that out because he told me they're going on tour and he has to close his cart for the rest of the year. but I guess I'll live, and good for him anyway.

the band has been around forever, but like so many, the lineup has changed a billion times, and the only constant member has been the current lead vocallist. my guy has only been in the band since 2019.

more relevant to these forums in general, the band was founded as Scared Straight, with lead vocalist Scott Radinsky, who was an MLB reliever and pitching coach. I'm sure I've seen him on TV many times, since he was Cleveland's pitching coach in 2009. these days I think he's just the lead vocalist for another band, Pulley.

[Motor City Sonics]

Been listening to Bossa Nova music all day and it always puts me in a good mood.    The video for the Bebel Gilberto song, what a beautiful setting that is.  I watch that everytime it's cold and grey outside. 

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

New Tyler Childers music out with a song called In Your Love. This is a slower, sappier song in the vein of Lady May and is not the hard driving, upbeat sound of Whitehouse Road. I like the song but am not certain I dig the way it was arranged with some of the background instrumentation. I would have preferred a more straight country-style fiddle sound than the pop-orchestral sound it sort of presents. I really enjoy his songwriting on this one though. I guess he'll be releasing an album some time in the next couple of months.

 

[Tigeraholic1]

20 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

New Tyler Childers music out with a song called In Your Love. This is a slower, sappier song in the vein of Lady May and is not the hard driving, upbeat sound of Whitehouse Road. I like the song but am not certain I dig the way it was arranged with some of the background instrumentation. I would have preferred a more straight country-style fiddle sound than the pop-orchestral sound it sort of presents. I really enjoy his songwriting on this one though. I guess he'll be releasing an album some time in the next couple of months.

 

I enjoy all of his styles of music. Lady May, Detroit and Triune God are always on my play list.

[CMRivdogs]

Went down the Tyler Childers YouTube rabbit hole and found Rhiannon Giddens. Where have I been the past 15 years or so?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Went down the Tyler Childers YouTube rabbit hole and found Rhiannon Giddens. Where have I been the past 15 years or so?

When you turn off FM radio (sorry MCS) and ignore mainstream, major label music, there is a whole world of good **** out there. If you are interested in going down musical rabbit holes check out the Alt-Country/Indie Country/Americana/Bluegrass/Roots music spreadsheet I made. I've tried capturing as many quality, good artists and bands as I could that fit into the "country/country-ish" genre. If you haven't ever listened to him, start with an artist named John Moreland if you're looking for something new to listen to. Margo Price is another good starting point.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/0B-IgWUeH-NnVa21zWXUtQ0FMY2M/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=106745601695921414018&resourcekey=0-99UB0ZcBlxLpfPm4luJUmg&rtpof=true&sd=true

[CMRivdogs]

6 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

When you turn off FM radio (sorry MCS) and ignore mainstream, major label music, there is a whole world of good **** out there. If you are interested in going down musical rabbit holes check out the Alt-Country/Indie Country/Americana/Bluegrass/Roots music spreadsheet I made. I've tried capturing as many quality, good artists and bands as I could that fit into the "country/country-ish" genre. If you haven't ever listened to him, start with an artist named John Moreland if you're looking for something new to listen to. Margo Price is another good starting point.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/0B-IgWUeH-NnVa21zWXUtQ0FMY2M/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=106745601695921414018&resourcekey=0-99UB0ZcBlxLpfPm4luJUmg&rtpof=true&sd=true

Outside of my local NPR station I haven't listened to anything relatively new since the mid 80s. Stuck too long in the corporate Beautiful Music, Lite Rock before the (It was my job)

I'm basically one of those Boomers who think good music ended with Rap and auto tune. Now that I no longer spend time in the automobile I've been exploring more. 

[Motor City Sonics]

Rhiannon Giddens is coming to Ann Arbor in September, by the way.   We're playing her new single today for New Music  Monday on 107one, I think it's in the 1pm hour.    

 

I put on a Yacht Rock mix this morning on Spotify.     I've gotten to the point in my life when I am no longer ashamed to admit that I love Yacht Rock.   I also love funk, punk, indie, rock, jazz, bossa nova and classical, but anyway, during the Yacht Rock mix the song Sharing The Night Together by Dr. Hook came on and I never liked that song, but now, thanks to the movie "El Camino" it makes me think of that creepy Todd Alquist (Jesse Plemons) because he loved that song and now the song kinda gives me the creeps.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Motor City Sonics