Hardknocks/Preseason Thread - Including OTAs

[RandyMarsh]

Lions definitely dodged a bullet there with Kenny. Did the last year of injuries here deteriorate him that much or is it just the fact that Daniel Jones doesn't know how to maximize him like Stafford could?

[MichiganCardinal]

17 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Lions definitely dodged a bullet there with Kenny. Did the last year of injuries here deteriorate him that much or is it just the fact that Daniel Jones doesn't know how to maximize him like Stafford could?

I would think the latter. He can be a valuable asset in the NFL. Just not at that price tag.

[Hongbit]

16 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Meanwhile, Giants fans are talking about how they can get out of the Golladay contract.

 

If you have a QB that’s waiting for Kenny to get open, he’s not going to catch many balls.   More often than not, Stafford would throw him open and Ken would leap up and make a play.   Admittedly, I watched almost no Giants games last year but I wonder how much of the problem is the QB. 

[Tigeraholic1]

40 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

If you have a QB that’s waiting for Kenny to get open, he’s not going to catch many balls.   More often than not, Stafford would throw him open and Ken would leap up and make a play.   Admittedly, I watched almost no Giants games last year but I wonder how much of the problem is the QB. 

Yup, he was the 50/50 ball guy for sure.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Disappointing to see Josh Paschal on the PUP list and looking like he will start the season on it as well. Pride of Detroit reported he aggravated an injury from college during minicamp and required sports hernia surgery in the spring.

[RandyMarsh]

Yeah that's a bit disappointing, there were a lot of really good players still available at the time of that pick that we could've used so really counting on Paschal being legit, hopefully this just turns out to be a minor setback and he ends up being the player that management sees him being. 

[buddha]

curse of the second round!

[NYLion]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:30 PM, buddha said:

i think the opposite.  kennedy doesnt play special teams and can almost assuredly make it through waivers and go back to the practoce squad.  benson can return kicks and punts and that gives him the edge.

I get that but if it's based on their actual on field competition, Kennedy should get the nod based on merit. Of course there's more that goes into the final cuts decisions like contract, need, perceived upside etc. but there's no doubt that Kennedy has at least put himself in the conversation to take a final spot based on his actual performance, he's done everything asked of him and then some. Otherwise, what's the point of having competition?

[NYLion]

7 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Disappointing to see Josh Paschal on the PUP list and looking like he will start the season on it as well. Pride of Detroit reported he aggravated an injury from college during minicamp and required sports hernia surgery in the spring.

We knew this for a while now. There were no surprises in terms of who went on IR and PUP. The only surprise, to me, is not seeing Jacobs on injured reserve so I wonder if he'll be ready for Week 1. No Levi either as far as I know.

[MichiganCardinal]

26 minutes ago, NYLion said:

We knew this for a while now. There were no surprises in terms of who went on IR and PUP. The only surprise, to me, is not seeing Jacobs on injured reserve so I wonder if he'll be ready for Week 1. No Levi either as far as I know.

I believe with the IR rules if a player is placed on IR before the cut to 53, they must be on IR for the entire season, but if the move is made after final cutdowns, they only have to be on for four weeks.

[NYLion]

8 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I believe with the IR rules if a player is placed on IR before the cut to 53, they must be on IR for the entire season, but if the move is made after final cutdowns, they only have to be on for four weeks.

Ah, so it's likely that Jacobs and especially Levi will be put on IR after the final cuts. Thanks for the clarification.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

8 hours ago, buddha said:

curse of the second round!

Both he and Levi will be inactive to start the season. I know it's no fault of Brad Holmes and it's waaaay too early to write either guy off, but it's really something how this organization gets next to nothing out of so many of its second round picks.

[RandyMarsh]

9 hours ago, buddha said:

curse of the second round!

Right? Outside of Slay I think they have all been disappointments, atleast in the past 20 or so years. 

[Hongbit]

I like there’s been very little talk about both Hock and Tracy Walker.  In the past, they were viewed as essential players for the success of the offense and defense.   Now, they are important but not essential.   Another sign of talent  upgrading.    

Edited August 24, 2022 by Hongbit

[Motown Bombers]

Here's my bold prediction: Ben Johnson will be a hotter head coaching candidate than Aaron Glenn. The Lions offense will be good, possibly top 10. Goff will have a good season, a Kirk Cousins type season where he flirts with a 100 passer rating and near 70% completion percentage. Not explosive but efficient. This will garner a lot of attention for Johnson since he is young and will be viewed as the next up and coming offensive guru. Offensive guys always get more attention than defensive guys anyways. 

[RandyMarsh]

Im skeptical they will be that good but I wouldn't rule it out either. Here's a question though if that were to happen would you still try to get a qb in the first round or stick with Goff?

You could risk running into the dreaded qb purgatory like Minny has been in but at the same time they have made the playoffs a few times under Cousins and Im of the belief that despite popular opinion the NFL playoffs is a crapshoot much like MLB, if guys like Foles can win Super Bowls and Eli Manning can beat Tom Brady twice anything can really happen.

If you have a qb good enough to consistently get you to the dance then there is a relatively good chance you're going to make a SB at some point. So I guess this is my long wined way of saying that I would stick with Goff if he did indeed has a Cousins type year and leads us to a top 10 offense.

Only caveat would be if a Mahomes type fell to your lap in the middle of the 1st like it did the Chiefs and there really wasn't any other player you really were in love with. At that point you'd probably have to take the chance and pick him. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

37 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I like there’s been very little talk about both Hock and Tracy Walker.  In the past, they were viewed as essential players for the success of the offense and defense.   Now, they are important but not essential.   Another sign of talent  upgrading.    

Which to me is incredibly disappointing. Anytime you use a top 10 pick on a player they should be an essential part of your roster and ideally a superstar. This is especially true when you burn a pick on a luxury position like a Tight End. I hope Hockenson is a success and a big time contributor to this offense as an offensive weapon. I don't think I've given up on the idea that he's going to be a Kelce or Kittle type of player, because I never believed that about him to begin with. Here's to hoping he's a key, successful part of this offense though.

[Hongbit]

Pretty much everything about the last regime was incredibly disappointing

[MichiganCardinal]

I think Hockenson will be much better this year when he doesn’t have to be the best receiving option out there. If your expectations for a 1st round TE are that they be top 3 at their position he may still disappoint, but I think Chark, St. Brown, and eventually JaMo will allow him to be a TE again, rather than a TE *and* our WR1

[buddha]

i really hope they dont sign hockenson to some ridiculous extension.  he's a frickin' tight end, cant stay healthy, and falls down immediately after contact.

kyle pitts he is not.  spend your money elsewhere.

[MichiganCardinal]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

i really hope they dont sign hockenson to some ridiculous extension.  he's a frickin' tight end, cant stay healthy, and falls down immediately after contact.

kyle pitts he is not.  spend your money elsewhere.

I wouldn't approach it like this. He still fills a need on this team for TE1, it's not like James Mitchell or Brock Wright could plug-and-play his role if he wasn't re-signed, so money has to go to a TE somewhere. If he's willing to get paid for being a TE1 but not ask for Travis Kelce or George Kittle type money ($15MM+), I think he's worth it.

[Hongbit]

Holmes is in a good position with Hock.  Either he has a great year and earns a strong contract or he doesn’t do much and they part ways and it becomes another point of emphasis on how empty the past regime left the cupboard.  

[Motown Bombers]

If Hockenson re-signs, it will probably for a contract that will make him top 5 amongst TEs. People will howl like they did when Stafford signed his big contract, but other TEs will sign and within a season or two his contract won't look that big like Stafford's. 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I wouldn't approach it like this. He still fills a need on this team for TE1, it's not like James Mitchell or Brock Wright could plug-and-play his role if he wasn't re-signed, so money has to go to a TE somewhere. If he's willing to get paid for being a TE1 but not ask for Travis Kelce or George Kittle type money ($15MM+), I think he's worth it.

i dont think he's worth it at all.  i think you can get similar production out of zylstra.  if he does manage to have a great year you can just franchise him.  i wouldnt do a long term deal unless it was for less money and helped smooth out the salary cap if they need the space.

i'm not really impressed with hockenson, as you can tell.  lol.

if youre going to spend that kind of money, spend it on a premium position, not a tight end who isnt a gsme changing player.

[MichiganCardinal]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

i dont think he's worth it at all.  i think you can get similar production out of zylstra.  if he does manage to have a great year you can just franchise him.  i wouldnt do a long term deal unless it was for less money and helped smooth out the salary cap if they need the space.

i'm not really impressed with hockenson, as you can tell.  lol.

if youre going to spend that kind of money, spend it on a premium position, not a tight end who isnt a gsme changing player.

Yeah I think it comes down to our different valuations of him as a player. I think he’s potential to be a top five TE in the league (though that hasn’t shown itself yet).

I don’t have an issue franchising him though if he’s good this year.