The Tigers have fired Al Avila

[Edman85]

FYI, if I remember right, Lunhow and Hinch didn't end on the best of terms. I could be wrong.

[mtutiger]

59 minutes ago, gkelly said:

Why put Cabrera on the IL?

Some people still want to watch him play before he retires.   Who else does this franchise have to take his place?  Willi Castro?  Some other guy who hits around .200 with no power?  So many options.  Just let him play because this team isn't doing anything for the next 5 years. 

Before the end of the year, I doubt much happens to him. We all know he probably needs to retire at this point for health reasons, but realistically, there's little chance that's coming with less than 60 games left.

But whoever ends up getting the job should be given latitude with this roster to build as they see fit, even if next year is a rebuilding or recalibration year. There's already a lot of speculation that significant changes will happen whenever that person comes into the picture.

Miguel and his status on the roster runs in conflict to that. Hence why it's a space to watch.

[1984Echoes]

Force him to retire. Fully paid at a cool $40 mill.

[buddha]

11 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Force him to retire. Fully paid at a cool $40 mill.

he's under contract for $32 mil next year.  why pay him more?

[buddha]

i'd rather watch cabrera hit than anyone else on this team.

i'd rather watch him hit next year too if he wants to keep going.  i hope he comes to an agreement with detroit to go out on his own terms after this year but i doubt it happens.  i think he likes playing.

[Tiger337]

I used to love Cabrera hit as much as any Tiger in my lifetime.  Not anymore.  He's been a replacement level DH for 6 years. He has reached his milestones and it's not much fun watching him anymore.  I am pretty sure he'll be back again next year though.  Assuming he is back, I hope he has a Pujols type role where he is part of a revolving DH position.  

[mtutiger]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

i'd rather watch cabrera hit than anyone else on this team.

i'd rather watch him hit next year too if he wants to keep going.  i hope he comes to an agreement with detroit to go out on his own terms after this year but i doubt it happens.  i think he likes playing.

Fully appreciate Miguel's contributions, but I would like the new GM to be able to make the decisions that he wants to make in the most unencumbered way possible.

Maybe that ends up involving Miguel, but from a purely practical standpoint, it's less than ideal.

Edited August 11, 2022 by mtutiger

[gkelly]

He doesn't bring anything more or less than any other offensive player on the roster; outside of Baez and Greene, there isn't an offensive guy on this team that is a legit major leaguer.  This team has been playing out the string since the end of May.  I don't care one way or the other if Cabrera ever plays again, but what difference does it make if he or some other guy who can't hit major league pitching plays?

Some posters make it sound like Cabrera is blocking some amazing guy down in the minors from getting playing time.  But yea, it is much more exciting watching Badoo, Cameron, Schoop, Candelario, Clemens, Barnhardt, etc. go out there and play riveting baseball.  Anyone that has shown anything in the minors would have had his chance in Detroit by now. 

All I am saying is maybe they could show a bit of respect for him.  The 3 greatest Tigers are Cobb, Kaline, and Cabrera.  Avila and Chris Ilitch made sure the last few productive years of his career were spent on garbage teams battling it out for 4th place.  This team isn't going to be competitive for at least 5 years, so Cabrera hitting .260 or some other guy who wouldn't be on the big league roster of 29 other major league teams striking out and looking overmatched isn't going to make any difference at all.

Edited August 11, 2022 by gkelly

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, gkelly said:

He doesn't bring anything more or less than any other offensive player on the roster; outside of Baez and Greene, there isn't an offensive guy on this team that is a legit major leaguer.  This team has been playing out the string since the end of May.  I don't care one way or the other if Cabrera ever plays again, but what difference does it make if he or some other guy who can't hit major league pitching plays?

Some posters make it sound like Cabrera is blocking some amazing guy down in the minors from getting playing time.  But yea, it is much more exciting watching Badoo, Cameron, Schoop, Candelario, Clemens, Barnhardt, etc. go out there and play riveting baseball.  Anyone that has shown anything in the minors would have had his chance in Detroit by now. 

All I am saying is maybe they could show a bit of respect for him.  The 3 greatest Tigers are Cobb, Kaline, and Cabrera.  Avila and Chris Ilitch made sure the last few productive years of his career were spent on garbage teams battling it out for 4th place.  This team isn't going to be competitive for at least 5 years, so Cabrera hitting .260 or some other guy who wouldn't be on the big league roster of 29 other major league teams striking out and looking overmatched isn't going to make any difference at all.

You are right about this year.  It doesn't matter.  He could get in the way next year if they acquire a couple of hitters and wat to move Meadows to DH or just want to use the DH to rotate and rest players.  

[chasfh]

22 minutes ago, buddha said:

he's under contract for $32 mil next year.  why pay him more?

He's including the $8 million buyout.

If they're going to do it, they really should do a Bobby Bonilla payout deal.

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, gkelly said:

He doesn't bring anything more or less than any other offensive player on the roster; outside of Baez and Greene, there isn't an offensive guy on this team that is a legit major leaguer.  This team has been playing out the string since the end of May.  I don't care one way or the other if Cabrera ever plays again, but what difference does it make if he or some other guy who can't hit major league pitching plays?

Some posters make it sound like Cabrera is blocking some amazing guy down in the minors from getting playing time.  But yea, it is much more exciting watching Badoo, Cameron, Schoop, Candelario, Clemens, Barnhardt, etc. go out there and play riveting baseball.  Anyone that has shown anything in the minors would have had his chance in Detroit by now. 

All I am saying is maybe they could show a bit of respect for him.  The 3 greatest Tigers are Cobb, Kaline, and Cabrera.  Avila and Chris Ilitch made sure the last few productive years of his career were spent on garbage teams battling it out for 4th place.  This team isn't going to be competitive for at least 5 years, so Cabrera hitting .260 or some other guy who wouldn't be on the big league roster of 29 other major league teams striking out and looking overmatched isn't going to make any difference at all.

It's not about Miguel for me.... it's about a new GM. One imagines that there is going to be a lot of turnover on this roster this offseason (and probably within the org), but there's a tension in that Miguel, who himself isn't a replacement level player at this point, is perceived to be an untouchable.

That's an issue for an incoming GM... maybe it gets resolved with a Pujols like role next year, but it's an issue that will have to dealt with regardless.

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, gkelly said:

He doesn't bring anything more or less than any other offensive player on the roster; outside of Baez and Greene, there isn't an offensive guy on this team that is a legit major leaguer.  This team has been playing out the string since the end of May.  I don't care one way or the other if Cabrera ever plays again, but what difference does it make if he or some other guy who can't hit major league pitching plays?

Some posters make it sound like Cabrera is blocking some amazing guy down in the minors from getting playing time.  But yea, it is much more exciting watching Badoo, Cameron, Schoop, Candelario, Clemens, Barnhardt, etc. go out there and play riveting baseball.  Anyone that has shown anything in the minors would have had his chance in Detroit by now. 

All I am saying is maybe they could show a bit of respect for him.  The 3 greatest Tigers are Cobb, Kaline, and Cabrera.  Avila and Chris Ilitch made sure the last few productive years of his career were spent on garbage teams battling it out for 4th place.  This team isn't going to be competitive for at least 5 years, so Cabrera hitting .260 or some other guy who wouldn't be on the big league roster of 29 other major league teams striking out and looking overmatched isn't going to make any difference at all.

I don’t think he’s blocking anyone amazing.  But he is blocking anyone that’s healthy from contributing.  And it’s not like Cabrera’s at bats are anything impressive anymore.  But hey, if you like watching out of shape has beens fail on the field but smile pretty in the dugout for the camera, enjoy yourself.

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

You are right about this year.  It doesn't matter.  He could get in the way next year if they acquire a couple of hitters and wat to move Meadows to DH or just want to use the DH to rotate and rest players.  

Agree totally here. It's hard not to look at this topic through the lens of this current roster, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that the roster will look a lot different come Opening Day 2023. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by mtutiger

[sabretooth]

5 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I was a kid during the Randy Smith years and followed this team religiously on PASS, UPN 50, and then FSD. Watched games weekly, read all the box scores, had a Cecil jersey, collected Greg Keagle and Jose Lima baseball cards. I was so hyped up on so many Randy Smith prospects that went no where from Encarnacion to Justin Thompson to Matt Anderson. I was an angry and disappointed 11 year old kid when Randy traded Gonzo straight up for Karim Garcia. What a fiasco of a trade.

Wow, to have missed the 1980s Tigers...the team of the decade in the AL (through 1988 anyway)...what a shame!

[sabretooth]

15 minutes ago, casimir said:

I don’t think he’s blocking anyone amazing.  But he is blocking anyone that’s healthy from contributing.  And it’s not like Cabrera’s at bats are anything impressive anymore.  But hey, if you like watching out of shape has beens fail on the field but smile pretty in the dugout for the camera, enjoy yourself.

Yeah, its not just that he sucks, others suck too....its that he has zero chance to succeed.  Its like Craig Paquette c.2003.

[sabretooth]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Agree totally here. It's hard not to look at this topic through the lens of this current roster, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that the roster will look a lot different come Opening Day 2023. 

Yeah they cant/wont go with anything close to the status quo in 2023.

[gkelly]

22 minutes ago, casimir said:

But hey, if you like watching out of shape has beens fail on the field but smile pretty in the dugout for the camera, enjoy yourself.

What's the difference watching him try to jog down to first base after a weakly hit ball to shortstop or watching any of the other players on the roster have horrible at bats.  You really think anyone other than Greene or Baez will even be on this roster in 2 years?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

4 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Wow, to have missed the 1980s Tigers...the team of the decade in the AL (through 1988 anyway)...what a shame!

I missed all the good Tigers years of the 1980's having been more in 1987. I only got to see the downside of Tram and Whitaker's respective careers. My earliest memories are going down to Tiger Stadium to watch Tigers vs. Indians and there would be more Cleveland fans in the stands than Tigers haha. While I want a Lions Super Bowl more, witnessing a Tigers Pennant is next on my list.

I say all that about Randy Smith to say that I've lived through both some really good and really horrific times here as a Tigers fan. As we all have together. Most around my age never got the taste of a World Series Championship and our memories growing up are not watching Jack Morris on the mound and Gibby at the plate. We got to see Filipa Lira start and Paul Backo bat in the heart of the order.

If Jeff Lunhow can come in and bring us a World Series Title, I'll be honest and selfish for a minute, that I'd be one of those fans celebrating and forgiving us his past sins. Sign stealing scandal aside, if he really is that much of a dirtbag towards others and created a truly toxic culture in Houston, where people felt harassed and threatened going into work each day, then I'm onboard with keeping him out of here.

We as an organization have to evaluate that and the merit of any claims made against the way he operated or allowed his organization and team to operate. If Lunhow can help produce a winner here in Detroit, is someone that Hinch can collaborate well with, and it is deemed after our organizations assessment of his tenure with the Astros that he isn't the complete villain he's been made out to be, I think he deserves serious consideration. I won't write him off just because of sign stealing. While I want to build a consistent winner, I don't want to do it at the expense of creating a miserable and toxic work environment. I would drop him if he created a truly toxic culture in Houston.

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I missed all the good Tigers years of the 1980's having been more in 1987. I only got to see the downside of Tram and Whitaker's respective careers. My earliest memories are going down to Tiger Stadium to watch Tigers vs. Indians and there would be more Cleveland fans in the stands than Tigers haha. While I want a Lions Super Bowl more, witnessing a Tigers Pennant is next on my list.

I say all that about Randy Smith to say that I've lived through both some really good and really horrific times here as a Tigers fan. As we all have together. Most around my age never got the taste of a World Series Championship and our memories growing up are not watching Jack Morris on the mound and Gibby at the plate. We got to see Filipa Lira start and Paul Backo bat in the heart of the order.

If Jeff Lunhow can come in and bring us a World Series Title, I'll be honest and selfish for a minute, that I'd be one of those fans celebrating and forgiving us his past sins. Sign stealing scandal aside, if he really is that much of a dirtbag towards others and created a truly toxic culture in Houston, where people felt harassed and threatened going into work each day, then I'm onboard with keeping him out of here.

We as an organization have to evaluate that and the merit of any claims made against the way he operated or allowed his organization and team to operate. If Lunhow can help produce a winner here in Detroit, is someone that Hinch can collaborate well with, and it is deemed after our organizations assessment of his tenure with the Astros that he isn't the complete villain he's been made out to be, I think he deserves serious consideration. I won't write him off just because of sign stealing. While I want to build a consistent winner, I don't want to do it at the expense of creating a miserable and toxic work environment. I would drop him if he created a truly toxic culture in Houston.

1) lions super bowl

2) michigan nat'l champ

3) red wings stanley cup

4) tigers ws

5) pistons champ

[mtutiger]

Uhh, Jarvy's comments are interesting here....

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Uhh, Jarvy's comments are interesting here....

maybe we should start a countdown, like:

"It's August 11, why is Scott Coolbaugh is still employed?......"

Edited August 11, 2022 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

Crappy performance across the  board aside if there is any truth to Javy's quote then Coolbaugh and Co. should be fired for that alone. Yeah a good hitting coach isn't going to turn a nobody into Ted Williams but what the good ones can do is identify what a player is doing wrong and correct it. Just like a PGA Instructor isn't going to turn somebody into prime Tiger Woods but those Instructor's usually can fix or identify what the player is doing wrong and maximize their abilities.

By the sound of things Coolbaugh and Co. aren't doing anything of that nature. I get the sense that their "coaching" consists of a 1 size fits all tutorial or thought process and isn't catered to a specific players needs or problems. Of course I'm not in the clubhouse so it may be unfair for me to make that accusation but between that Javy quote and seeing virtually every player under his watch get worse with no real signs of progress makes that a pretty fair assumption until proven otherwise. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Tigermojo]

Something needs to change and Coolbaugh is the easiest change to make.

[sabretooth]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I missed all the good Tigers years of the 1980's having been more in 1987. I only got to see the downside of Tram and Whitaker's respective careers. My earliest memories are going down to Tiger Stadium to watch Tigers vs. Indians and there would be more Cleveland fans in the stands than Tigers haha. While I want a Lions Super Bowl more, witnessing a Tigers Pennant is next on my list.

I say all that about Randy Smith to say that I've lived through both some really good and really horrific times here as a Tigers fan. As we all have together. Most around my age never got the taste of a World Series Championship and our memories growing up are not watching Jack Morris on the mound and Gibby at the plate. We got to see Filipa Lira start and Paul Backo bat in the heart of the order.

If Jeff Lunhow can come in and bring us a World Series Title, I'll be honest and selfish for a minute, that I'd be one of those fans celebrating and forgiving us his past sins. Sign stealing scandal aside, if he really is that much of a dirtbag towards others and created a truly toxic culture in Houston, where people felt harassed and threatened going into work each day, then I'm onboard with keeping him out of here.

We as an organization have to evaluate that and the merit of any claims made against the way he operated or allowed his organization and team to operate. If Lunhow can help produce a winner here in Detroit, is someone that Hinch can collaborate well with, and it is deemed after our organizations assessment of his tenure with the Astros that he isn't the complete villain he's been made out to be, I think he deserves serious consideration. I won't write him off just because of sign stealing. While I want to build a consistent winner, I don't want to do it at the expense of creating a miserable and toxic work environment. I would drop him if he created a truly toxic culture in Houston.

Yeah, I agree with this take. 

To grow up with the post Cecil/Fryman teams must have been pretty brutal, though I always had hopes for the Clark/Easley/Palmer/JuanE/Kapler/Moehler/Weaver/Thompson (and BradA and Brocail LOL).

If I read you right that you were born in 1987, you would have experienced the start of the 2004-2014 era during your college days, which should have been a ton of fun!  2006 still stands as the funnest year this side of 1984 and better for me because I got to enjoy it with my sons.

And 2006 proves that with the right owner/GM combo, you can turn a team around very quickly.  Maybe not from 43 to 95 wins in 3 years like DD did, but 70-something to 80-something in 2 years should be doable at anytime with the right leadership.

And as you turn a team around, you can make the moves internally to help make the team sustainable.  Avoiding long extensions for incumbent players would be a first step.  Firesales are a no-no on the other extreme.

Edited August 11, 2022 by sabretooth

[sabretooth]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

1) lions super bowl

2) michigan nat'l champ

3) red wings stanley cup

4) tigers ws

5) pistons champ

Yeah, if the Lions won, the whole region would melt down.  Grown men crying, seas boiling, dogs and cats living together....