casimir Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Hockey does recognize goalies as a unique position- for instance goalies don't serve their penalties and other special rules apply to them. But the distinction between forwards and defenseman is purely internal to a team, the rules don't recognize any difference between the 5 skaters. Maybe MLB needs to employ emergency pitchers like the NHL has emergency goalies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 hour ago, KL2 said: Tackle eligible? Or put Ezekiel Elliott at C. What could go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 17 hours ago, Tenacious D said: Unlike you Luddites, I like the new extra innings with the runner on second base. Adds a new strategic dynamic and does shorten games. I don’t mind it starting in the 11th. I’d like them to play the 10th as normal. If they would have decided that I would have been totally cool with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I don't understand the strategic dynamic it's supposed to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 It is 100% about avoiding tearing apart bullpens in 19 inning games. Ensuing roster churn/injuries/etc. From that standpoint it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, oblong said: I don't understand the strategic dynamic it's supposed to add. Purportedly the intent is to reduce the odds of long extra innings games, burning out pitching staffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 That’s one of the reasons they’ve been doing it in international games, too. I like it better than declaring a tie after x innings. We ain’t Japan. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 19 minutes ago, Edman85 said: It is 100% about avoiding tearing apart bullpens in 19 inning games. Ensuing roster churn/injuries/etc. From that standpoint it makes sense. How many 19 inning games are there in a season? How about using SP for more than 5 innings and RP for more than 1 inning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 It's not a hill I would die on. Other things they are doing bother me way more. I guess I see it like the 10th should be normal, that's similar to the 5 min 4 on 4 OT in hockey. Do that, then the shoot out. Play the 10th, then do this in the 11th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 https://theathletic.com/4191908/2023/02/13/mlb-extra-innings-position-player-rules/ 2019: 37 games went 13 innings or longer. 8 games went 15 innings or longer. 2022: 11 games went 13 innings or longer. None went 15 or longer. The chain reaction from those roster moves bleeds down the minor leagues. If you have to call up three pitchers to have a fresh staff the next day, then AAA gets depleted, AA, etc.... And you have pitchers whose arms you are trying to protect pitching in bad spots. I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is, if you are the fan that watches games and sees the extra inning runner, I can understand how you may not like it. Hell, I don't. If you are the type of fan who follows roster moves, nitty gritty, minor leagues, etc., it starts to make more sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Edman85 said: https://theathletic.com/4191908/2023/02/13/mlb-extra-innings-position-player-rules/ 2019: 37 games went 13 innings or longer. 8 games went 15 innings or longer. 2022: 11 games went 13 innings or longer. None went 15 or longer. The chain reaction from those roster moves bleeds down the minor leagues. If you have to call up three pitchers to have a fresh staff the next day, then AAA gets depleted, AA, etc.... And you have pitchers whose arms you are trying to protect pitching in bad spots. I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is, if you are the fan that watches games and sees the extra inning runner, I can understand how you may not like it. Hell, I don't. If you are the type of fan who follows roster moves, nitty gritty, minor leagues, etc., it starts to make more sense. this is a fair point and it goes back to Casimir's complaint. It's a whole different ball game from gettin to the 10th having used 2 or 3 pitchers and everyone in your BP can give you three more (circa 1970), than entering the 10th having already used 6 and nobody left out there can pitch more than one. So sure, while cutting off extra innings is billed as part of the general 'pace of play' effort, it's much more directly the result of the way the modern game chews up pitching. Edited February 16, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 30 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: this is a fair point and it goes back to Casimir's complaint. It's a whole different ball game from gettin to the 10th having used 2 or 3 pitchers and everyone in your BP can give you three more (circa 1970), than entering the 10th having already used 6 and nobody left out there can pitch more than one. So sure, while cutting off extra innings is billed as part of the general 'pace of play' effort, it's much more directly the result of the way the modern game chews up pitching. Yes, exactly. My opinion, which admittedly ain't worth nothing, is that pitching has more or less devolved into throwing. I think this leads to the 6 man pitching staffs, the 13 man pitching staffs, shorter duration/game on the mound, etc, etc. I don't know, it seems silly to me that with better conditions for athletes, better health (training and nutrition, etc) and we're still dealing with injury issues despite shorter outings. And, sure, all of these advancements and better conditions are helping the hitters, too. I don't know, I'm trying to not be "back in my day" guy, but the modern day pitching just doesn't make sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, oblong said: I don't understand the strategic dynamic it's supposed to add. I don't think I'd admit to that. I'm not saying it's the reason for deploying this (Edman is correct), but certainly creates interesting decisions that managers need to make. i.e., do you bunt the runner over, intentionally walk a batter to create a force or double play, hit and run, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, oblong said: It's not a hill I would die on. Other things they are doing bother me way more. I guess I see it like the 10th should be normal, that's similar to the 5 min 4 on 4 OT in hockey. Do that, then the shoot out. Play the 10th, then do this in the 11th. I don't disagree with this solution, giving it one more inning before deploying the runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) Yeah Id be OK with the rule of they waited to the 11th but doing it in the 10th seems premature. Atleast give teams 1 inning to try to win the real way. Edited February 16, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, casimir said: Yes, exactly. My opinion, which admittedly ain't worth nothing, is that pitching has more or less devolved into throwing. I think this leads to the 6 man pitching staffs, the 13 man pitching staffs, shorter duration/game on the mound, etc, etc. I don't know, it seems silly to me that with better conditions for athletes, better health (training and nutrition, etc) and we're still dealing with injury issues despite shorter outings. And, sure, all of these advancements and better conditions are helping the hitters, too. I don't know, I'm trying to not be "back in my day" guy, but the modern day pitching just doesn't make sense to me. Yes, and all of that is 100% because of the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Edman85 said: It is 100% about avoiding tearing apart bullpens in 19 inning games. Ensuing roster churn/injuries/etc. From that standpoint it makes sense. Given all the injuries to pitching staffs still happening, I am not sure it's working, but you are right that this is the reason they are doing it. It has nothing to do with adding strategy or shortening games. It's not real baseball though. If they can't get a winner by the 11th inning, just call it a tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Tigers announce all midweek games start at 6:40. They started this a few years ago in April and September. It's tough for some people to get there by then but I guess they based it on "fan feedback". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Throwing runners out there goes against the internal nature of the game...there is no defined end time to a game...in theory it could go on infinitely...the foul lines are just that..lines. Not line segments but lines...they extend infinitely...even beyond the stadium. George Carlin did a bit on this decades ago just randomly throwing a runner out there because the game is tied? What's next...trap doors in the outfield that swallow the CF at random intervals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Edman85 said: https://theathletic.com/4191908/2023/02/13/mlb-extra-innings-position-player-rules/ 2019: 37 games went 13 innings or longer. 8 games went 15 innings or longer. 2022: 11 games went 13 innings or longer. None went 15 or longer. The chain reaction from those roster moves bleeds down the minor leagues. If you have to call up three pitchers to have a fresh staff the next day, then AAA gets depleted, AA, etc.... And you have pitchers whose arms you are trying to protect pitching in bad spots. I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is, if you are the fan that watches games and sees the extra inning runner, I can understand how you may not like it. Hell, I don't. If you are the type of fan who follows roster moves, nitty gritty, minor leagues, etc., it starts to make more sense. All good points. Personally I never minded the extra innings. I am a real fan of the game. However, I totally understand this and am very much for it. IMHO, the health of the players is of the utmost of importance. You simply cannot deplete a staff for a single game, makes NO sense and this then has further repercussions, as you mentioned (Edman85), to the pitching staffs at AAA, AA, etc. Eventually maybe the league and union will realize a 27-28 man roster may be best (though it took a long time to get to 26). There are simply too many injuries this day and age and there are many reasons. One, the athlete him/herself may just be over conditioned (Though not a university degree, I was a trainer for many years including some pros). There may be too much 'overall' physical training and that is why many staff's are now realizing there are times to cut back on total workloads. This in itself is a science that dabbles into several areas: kinesiology, nutrition, genetic factors, rest, etc. and although there are 'generalities' there is no 'cookie cutter' way as many bodies act differently. Second to that, the average fan is not interested in 3+ - 4 hour long games (many of us here are not the avg fan of course). That extensive game length is probably not appealing to many who may begin to have interest in watching the games as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: What's next...trap doors in the outfield that swallow the CF at random intervals? oooohhh. I like that one. Perfect for Trout. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: oooohhh. I like that one. Perfect for Trout. He'll still hit more homers than the Tigers starting line-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Edman85 said: https://theathletic.com/4191908/2023/02/13/mlb-extra-innings-position-player-rules/ 2019: 37 games went 13 innings or longer. 8 games went 15 innings or longer. 2022: 11 games went 13 innings or longer. None went 15 or longer. The chain reaction from those roster moves bleeds down the minor leagues. If you have to call up three pitchers to have a fresh staff the next day, then AAA gets depleted, AA, etc.... And you have pitchers whose arms you are trying to protect pitching in bad spots. I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is, if you are the fan that watches games and sees the extra inning runner, I can understand how you may not like it. Hell, I don't. If you are the type of fan who follows roster moves, nitty gritty, minor leagues, etc., it starts to make more sense. We will see if it actually does prevent injuries. Just based on observation, it doesn't seem like anything they have done over the years to give a break to pitching staffs seems to have reduced injuries. I still think most of what ails the game today revolves around the obsession with home runs. Deaden the ball and I think a lot of problems would be fixed. They won't do that though because chicks dig the long ball $$$$. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: Yes, and all of that is 100% because of the ball. I think it’s more about the home run, which the hall helps. Hit it out or get struck out. Too much of that these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, alex said: All good points. Personally I never minded the extra innings. I am a real fan of the game. However, I totally understand this and am very much for it. IMHO, the health of the players is of the utmost of importance. You simply cannot deplete a staff for a single game, makes NO sense and this then has further repercussions, as you mentioned (Edman85), to the pitching staffs at AAA, AA, etc. Eventually maybe the league and union will realize a 27-28 man roster may be best (though it took a long time to get to 26). There are simply too many injuries this day and age and there are many reasons. One, the athlete him/herself may just be over conditioned (Though not a university degree, I was a trainer for many years including some pros). There may be too much 'overall' physical training and that is why many staff's are now realizing there are times to cut back on total workloads. This in itself is a science that dabbles into several areas: kinesiology, nutrition, genetic factors, rest, etc. and although there are 'generalities' there is no 'cookie cutter' way as many bodies act differently. Second to that, the average fan is not interested in 3+ - 4 hour long games (many of us here are not the avg fan of course). That extensive game length is probably not appealing to many who may begin to have interest in watching the games as well. The rule changes will have a big effect on that. Not sure who here went to a minor league game with pitch clock last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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