2022 MLB Postseason Thread

[sabretooth]

Well, because AA cut the payroll, we fans saved a LOT of money....oops, it wasn't our money, we didn't save anything.

Well, at least we saw a winning team built the "right" way....oops, the minor leagues suck and we're really bad at developing talent.

Well, at least we have an exciting young core of players...eh, even our top 1st round picks are underperforming.

At least the owner is happy with how his decisions have panned out...oops, he fired his GM after 6 seasons.

I realize that 2022 was a year of bad luck, and things could rebound quickly from horrible to not-so-bad or even better, but it should never have gotten to this point in the first place.

[mtutiger]

 

[SoCalTiger]

5 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Well, because AA cut the payroll, we fans saved a LOT of money....oops, it wasn't our money, we didn't save anything.

Well, at least we saw a winning team built the "right" way....oops, the minor leagues suck and we're really bad at developing talent.

Well, at least we have an exciting young core of players...eh, even our top 1st round picks are underperforming.

At least the owner is happy with how his decisions have panned out...oops, he fired his GM after 6 seasons.

I realize that 2022 was a year of bad luck, and things could rebound quickly from horrible to not-so-bad or even better, but it should never have gotten to this point in the first place.

No in hindsight Mr. I should have been grooming DD to maintain things after he's gone. Could have even given him a small percentage of the team like 1/2% per year after his death for up to 6 years for a net of 3% plus a solid salary. Let Chris learn under DD instead of you know who. Thats about 30 million for the stewardship or one season of Miggy. Peanuts to keep the team winning.

[RatkoVarda]

Phils win 2-0; DD working toward another pennant

[sabretooth]

14 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Phils win 2-0; DD working toward another pennant

Huh, isn't that weird....strange, unexpected...I mean, what fool would have guessed such an improbable event, after a lost decade of Philly futility? 

After their GM was let go by one of the all-time great organizations, the Tigers, which has done so well without him.  And DD just lucks his way into his sixth straight winning season as a GM post-Tigers (along with 4 post-Tigers winning seasons and 3 playoff appearances and a WS).  

DD was washed up, a has-been, and according to the salary scolds and DD haters around here, the Tigers were going to rise like the Phoenix from the ashes of his incompetence. 

Some people are **still** convicted that we are better off.

Not that **anybody** here disagreed with them.

Oh, I get it, our wonderful and amazing owner here would NEVER have worked well with DD, because our wonderful owner is far too progressive and smart to work with a retrograde like DD.  

Well, hopefully, our new GM can some day begin to sniff the kind of success as the head honcho that DD has been experiencing for several decades.  Maybe someday.  Maybe we can start to be good just in time to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the 2006 team?  Or maybe the 25th?

Wait 'till next year (2024, that is)!

Edited October 19, 2022 by sabretooth

[sabretooth]

Sorry to be a broken record, but when the GM that we dumped and scorned the memory of and the great players that we dumped for nothing are STILL leading winnings teams and are STILL getting teams into the playoffs 5-7 years AFTER we dumped them, and we have NOTHING to show for it, I am going to keep calling out those people that have consistently claimed that it was all for the best, and have not even bothered to change their tune.

I wish that I had lived in Houston, Boston, Washington, and now Philadelphia, to have enjoyed the success brought about by our cast-offs, instead of suffering with this crap-fest of an organization and it's stupid owner, and worse-yet to listen to how much better off we were to have gone this predictably failed and boring as hell route for all of these years, with the prospect of ANOTHER rebuild in front of us.

Edited October 19, 2022 by sabretooth

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

Sorry to be a broken record, but when the GM that we dumped and scorned the memory of and the great players that we dumped for nothing are STILL leading winnings teams and are STILL getting teams into the playoffs 5-7 years AFTER we dumped them, and we have NOTHING to show for it, I am going to keep calling out those people that have consistently claimed that it was all for the best, and have not even bothered to change their tune.

I wish that I had lived in Houston, Boston, Washington, and now Philadelphia, to have enjoyed the success brought about by our cast-offs, instead of suffering with this crap-fest of an organization and it's stupid owner, and worse-yet to listen to how much better off we were to have gone this predictably failed and boring as hell route for all of these years, with the prospect of ANOTHER rebuild in front of us.

Well we have all played that broken record so its understandable because its so improbable that things could have gone so badly. But they did. Perhaps we will be better served looking downstream which has to be better. I have a good feeling about the new commander. I think Scot Harris will prove to be an excellent hire and our treasured Tigers will be far more entertaining the next seven years compared the last. So let's try to feel good about what's coming. We certainly are due !

[casimir]

Which polo shirt will Dombrowski wear on his hall of fame plaque?

[oblong]

the other schadenfreude with the Phils is Joe Girardi.

 

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

the other schadenfreude with the Phils is Joe Girardi.

 

That's a fun point, isn't it?  22-29 under Girardi and 65-46 under Thompson. 

And in the other dugout, Melvin is in his first season with the Padres.

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, oblong said:

the other schadenfreude with the Phils is Joe Girardi.

 

Girardi, Ausmus and Matheny... all proof that being a catcher doesn't guarantee managerial genius

[casimir]

Is it OK to both hate the Yankees and smirk with a bit of karmatic grin at the final putout of the series?

[oblong]

 I really didn't care who won that series because I hate both teams for different reasons.  But part of me is glad the Yankees won to quell more whining about top seeds not advancing in the new format because some people think it's unfair if there are upsets in the playoffs.

 

 

[bobrob2004]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Girardi, Ausmus and Matheny... all proof that being a catcher doesn't guarantee managerial genius

Throw Hinch in there too.  His only winning seasons is tainted by the cheating.  

[casimir]

41 minutes ago, oblong said:

 I really didn't care who won that series because I hate both teams for different reasons.  But part of me is glad the Yankees won to quell more whining about top seeds not advancing in the new format because some people think it's unfair if there are upsets in the playoffs.

 

 

The Dodgers are a better team than the Padres.  The Padres just happened to win a playoff series.  That's what sports do sometimes.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

 I really didn't care who won that series because I hate both teams for different reasons.  But part of me is glad the Yankees won to quell more whining about top seeds not advancing in the new format because some people think it's unfair if there are upsets in the playoffs.

 

 

I have some Yankee fans within my orbit and was hearing all about it when they were down 2-1.... which wouldn't have mattered because the exact same two teams would have been playing under last year's format lol

Edited October 19, 2022 by mtutiger

[sabretooth]

10 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Well we have all played that broken record so its understandable because its so improbable that things could have gone so badly. But they did. Perhaps we will be better served looking downstream which has to be better. I have a good feeling about the new commander. I think Scot Harris will prove to be an excellent hire and our treasured Tigers will be far more entertaining the next seven years compared the last. So let's try to feel good about what's coming. We certainly are due !

I like Scott Harris but Chris I blows.

Chris I said some good things but he needs to show that he will actually support the resources to put the best product on the field and not hamstring Harris by continuing to provide a below-average payroll. 

I will be happy to crown this duo as "it" when I see them produce nominal developmental success from the minor league system AND more importantly, put a freaking winning product on the field. 

Until I see results count me as skeptical that Harris can overcome the Chris I factor.

I do like Harris though, don't mistake my attitude as reflective of anything negative against him.  I just highly doubt that he has the insight and skills to get Chris over the hump.

[sabretooth]

If you like Scott Harris, I challenge you to avoid the trap of requiring him to magically build a Rays/As style low-payroll success here.  If that could be repeated simply by hiring a good GM then everybody would be doing it. 

And the As have hamstrung their once-in-a-millenia talent in Billy Beane to the point where even his As have only had winning seasons 1/2 of the time.  Not bad, but is that the goal?

As for the Rays, again, that is a wonderful organization, and I would love to see that here, but again, if that could be duplicated by simply plugging in a good GM and President then the Rays model would have been duplicated elsewhere, and it has not.

The Cardinals are the Rays but with a consistently average or above average payroll.  I would love to emulate that model, and since we are a mid-or-better market, we have more economic resources to draw on than St. Louis.  I don't suppose we can match the Cardinals in terms of organizational competency (few if any can), but we can (like Houston and Atlanta) make up some of the difference with larger market resources.

Houston and Atlanta are probably the closest and most relevant models that Detroit/Harris should try and emulate -- we have a fairly similar market as they do, they are fairly recent (last 10 years) entrants into the upper class of organizations (unlike the Cardinals, who have been pretty continuously successful for about 75 years).  Houston and Atlanta, like the Cardinals, also continuously commit nominal/average resources/payroll (or more), and don't slip in that regard.  THAT should be our goal, to build, commit, and maintain excellence in all phases, never going for the "cheap" solution.

So my hope is that Harris can be the influencer of ownership, the leader of the front office, the architect of organizational excellence, and technical master that will lead this team from historical incompetence under Chris/AA to Astros/Braves level competence, resource commitment, and success.

[oblong]

Yes the Cardinals to me are the model franchise.  But you are right that the changes that need to take place go beyond just the front office staff making draft choices and trades and signings.  It's also development.  I always say it's not about just picking the right players but making the players you do pick into something.  That's also a skill.  Good and even average players are not always born or finished products. 

 

[Jim Cowan]

I don't remember anyone at all here being happy that Dombrowski left.  Perhaps there were some, but I don't remember them.

[bsc3165]

So, is anyone else hoping Justin pitches 2 no-hitters in this series, but the Astros lose. Not that I would prefer the Yankees in the World Series, I just want Justin to say no to his player option and test free agency.

 

[Stanley70]

I don't get the Chris I. hate. A good owner sets a decent budget and stays out of the way. And makes changes in the front office when the team is failing.

He has basically done that although he let AA hang around way too long. I understand not spending during periods losing, but he spent last year on Baez and ERod. Tampa Bay and Oakland would not have signed players like that in IMO.

I expect Harris to to spend in areas the Tigers have neglected, like scouting and development. We will see how that goes.

When they have a team that looks like they can win in the playoffs, should that day ever come, will he spend really big? He did in 2016 and he probably will again.

[sabretooth]

8 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I don't remember anyone at all here being happy that Dombrowski left.  Perhaps there were some, but I don't remember them.

I will let others speak for themselves.  There has been a pretty consistent crowd of anti-DD people who prefer to do things "the right way". 

Many of them touted the Royals as the right way, before it became clear that it was a fluke development class that caused a 3-year bump in an otherwise unbroken 30+year losing period. 

Many touted the Cubs without apparently noticing the trades, FAs, and overall spend. 

Many touted the As without noticing that the As basically never tanked to become a low-salary team (maybe this year the A's changed their minds and are embracing tanking, I hope not, time will tell). 

Everybody loves the Rays and Cardinals, but who can be THAT good? 

Obviously the Dodgers are a great organization who also have a great market base, we can learn from the first example.

The Yanks also have very strong leadership but basically work off of a giant payroll.

Boston also has a large market base but also generally does everything well.

There are other teams that enter the discussion like the Indians and Giants.  The Indians seem like a wanna-be Rays/As model, and are certainly better at development than the Tigers, but not as good as the teams they emulate.

That leaves the Astros and Braves, who do seem to do everything pretty well or excellently, AND they spend at least an average payroll, so THAT is why I think we should be like them.

[sabretooth]

14 minutes ago, Stanley70 said:

I don't get the Chris I. hate. A good owner sets a decent budget and stays out of the way. And makes changes in the front office when the team is failing.

He has basically done that although he let AA hang around way too long. I understand not spending during periods losing, but he spent last year on Baez and ERod. Tampa Bay and Oakland would not have signed players like that in IMO.

I expect Harris to to spend in areas the Tigers have neglected, like scouting and development. We will see how that goes.

When they have a team that looks like they can win in the playoffs, should that day ever come, will he spend really big? He did in 2016 and he probably will again.

Pull out Miggy's insane Mike I contract that Chris would have unloaded if Miggy had been tradeable, and they have had a bottom 5 payroll from 2018 - 2021.  That's not a decent budget at all.

It was more of a decent budget this year, but the spend was executed by an incompetent GM that Chris should have known was incompetent just by looking at the disastrous 2017/2018 firesale and the lack of development of minor league talent.

All of the indicators have been that Chris I is a low-risk/profits first owner who has been laughably disengaged from the reality of the situation. 

I don't mind the profits motive at all, but it cannot be combined with a low-risk approach and a lack of accountability for results.  THAT is why Chris I has been a failure and that's why I feel that Harris has to somehow convert Chris' way of thinking about risk tolerance and resource allocation to make this work.

And Harris has to set the standards for organizational excellence, define success clearly with metrics, and get Chris to buy into that model.

Edited October 19, 2022 by sabretooth

[sabretooth]

28 minutes ago, oblong said:

Yes the Cardinals to me are the model franchise.  But you are right that the changes that need to take place go beyond just the front office staff making draft choices and trades and signings.  It's also development.  I always say it's not about just picking the right players but making the players you do pick into something.  That's also a skill.  Good and even average players are not always born or finished products. 

 

Yes, the As, Rays, Cardinals, Astros, Braves, Red Sox, Dodgers and Indians all do a consistently better job at this than the Tigers have for a long time.  Turning that around for the Tigers is one of the requirements for Harris to be successful.