2023 Detroit Tigers Regular Season Discussion Thread

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, tiger2022 said:

This is the awful thing about being a Tigers fan, looking to trade anyone that is remotely good in return for a bunch of crap prospects that probably will never make it to the majors.  Avila was more about getting quantity than quality in trades.  You can only have so many good field, no hit position players in your organization.

I will be interested in seeing how Scott Harris works this deadline.

[RatkoVarda]

54 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I will be interested in seeing how Scott Harris works this deadline.

going to be a decent number of win now teams, who hopefully don't care about Rodriguez's opt out

and Ilitch can always throw in some cash if that helps

[alex]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

going to be a decent number of win now teams, who hopefully don't care about Rodriguez's opt out

and Ilitch can always throw in some cash if that helps

All IMHO. Why do we wish to trade any talented players (ERod, Javy, etc.)? Well you could say so we can 'get some young talent back' and reduce payroll.

Yet, next off season many may will be clamoring to sign some significant players (like ERod and Javy 😉) hence, perhaps not too much sense there.  Sure we could gamble and say SHarris and staff will be better at this than the previous regime. However, you should be darn sure in who you acquire (yet all prospects are a crap shot).

Things can turnaround quickly (see Cleveland and young talent). We have to develop players we have 'now' (Tork, Greene, Malloy, PMeadows, Keith, etc.) and Draft well (and develop). As far a SP we have to have several of quality that can pitch 150 innings. Who projects as that? Who did last season? The Mize, Manning & Skubal projection could still be legit - but right now and also last year they barely can pitch 175 combined!! (minders of projections of Fullmer, Boyd and Norris).

No team can continue to improve very much if they are not getting IP from their starting staff. We have to have SP who can give innings.

The BP will be decimated if SPs are not giving some innings and we will then have AAAA SPs all over AND an overused BP and a constant 'losing games' mentality among the team. This is a sane reason why not to just trade ERod, Boyd, Lorenzen, etc. (for 'iffy' prospects). Even if they end up leaving, for the salaries paid to them, we can replace them (or even re-sign some).

Edited April 27, 2023 by alex

[RandyMarsh]

If ERod continues to pitch the way he has he's going to opt out and all we will get is a comp pick so if we can get a prospect(s) better than that you might as well do that, assuming of course we aren't in playoff contention. 

[SoCalTiger]

Erod will be traded. 

[Tenacious D]

39 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Erod will be traded. 

This.  He will opt out, and while he might be open to re-signing with us, he’ll get another 5 years and $100M plus, which won’t be a great contract.

A trade would not signal a cost-cutting or flag waving move.  Just being smart.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, alex said:

All IMHO. Why do we wish to trade any talented players (ERod, Javy, etc.)? Well you could say so we can 'get some young talent back' and reduce payroll.

Yet, next off season many may will be clamoring to sign some significant players...

By and large, individual players don't matter - it's total roster value. The key to moving a guy like ERod is that you do it at the point where you can get more wins back for him they he is worth to you - so you get better. THAT was Avila's single biggest failure. There was reasonable rational for moving most the players he moved, but he failed to get back the value that should have been there and that was the justification for those trades to begin with. The better example was when DD moved Curtis Granderson, he got back Austin Jackson and Max Scherzer. Max is going the HOF and AJ  was potentially a perrenial 5 WAR player before the leg injuries accumulated. The idea of moving guys to teams reaching for the brass ring is that they are  enough in WinNow mode to give up more absolute future value because the present value you offer is multiplied for them. But sure, if you are the seller in that situation and do not get more back then you gave up, then you have Avila's Tiger legacy.

[mtutiger]

I know people are discounting the possibility because the entire fanbase is jaded about this team and it's prospects, but given the tire fire that the division largely is, what happens if this team manages to find itself within shouting distance of first place approaching the deadline? Like, <5 games out?

E-Rod should be traded in any circumstance, imo, but that's an interesting counterfactual. And I dont know that it's entirely out of the realm of possibility, especially if Tork and/or Greene start producing as we want them to.

Edited April 27, 2023 by mtutiger

[Jim Cowan]

These are good points about the draft and how little the value is of a baseball pick, compared to other sports.  That is why it is incorrect to say, as so many do, that the Tigers had a "strategy" of "tanking" for years.  No one "tanks" in baseball. The Al Avila team was trying to improve every year, and was unable to accomplish anything, but they were not deliberately losing to improve their draft position.

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I know people are discounting the possibility because the entire fanbase is jaded about this team and it's prospects, but given the tire fire that the division largely is, what happens if this team manages to find itself within shouting distance of first place approaching the deadline? Like, <5 games out?

E-Rod should be traded in any circumstance, imo, but that's an interesting counterfactual. And I dont know that it's entirely out of the realm of possibility, especially if Tork and/or Greene start producing as we want them to.

Then you increase the ask since Erod presents the Tigers more value as a contender. But the goal remains to trade I think. 

[RandyMarsh]

If by some chance the Tigers are contenders come the deadline then I'm not trading E-Rod unless we get a Godfather offer. Nowadays unless you are a legit Ace with a track record like Max Scherzer was teams just don't give up much for rentals so I think at best we'd be looking at like a 50 grade prospect that could break out but is far more likely to be a utility guy/AAAA in the end. I'd rather just take my chances that we could somehow keep competing and have an exciting August and September than worry about missing out on a return like that. 

 

[mtutiger]

35 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Then you increase the ask since Erod presents the Tigers more value as a contender. But the goal remains to trade I think. 

That's probably where I am as well. 

Not even saying that the hypothetical happens, I doubt it.... but I do think this division is pretty bad, so it adds a level of uncertainty to the mix.

[RandyMarsh]

Trout and Ohtani are on pace for over 20 WAR between them yet the Angels are only .500. It's just a shame their talents have been wasted on such terrible teams, talk about squandering 2 generational talents like that. 

edit: meant to put this in the general regular season thread, oh well my lack of posting awareness would fit right in on the rest of the Angels team I guess. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[Longgone]

5 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

If ERod continues to pitch the way he has he's going to opt out and all we will get is a comp pick so if we can get a prospect(s) better than that you might as well do that, assuming of course we aren't in playoff contention. 

No comp pick

[RandyMarsh]

6 minutes ago, Longgone said:

No comp pick

Cause of the opt out? 

[Longgone]

5 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Cause of the opt out? 

Because he’s already been through free agency once and received a qualifying offer.

[RandyMarsh]

Just now, Longgone said:

Because he’s already been through free agency once and received a qualifying offer.

Oh wow did not know that, thanks for the heads up. So if by some miracle Javy opts out and signs elsewhere we wouldn't get a comp for him either then? 

[Longgone]

7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Oh wow did not know that, thanks for the heads up. So if by some miracle Javy opts out and signs elsewhere we wouldn't get a comp for him either then? 

We may with him, because the Mets couldn’t make him a qualifying offer since he was with them less than a year.

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

This.  He will opt out, and while he might be open to re-signing with us, he’ll get another 5 years and $100M plus, which won’t be a great contract.

A trade would not signal a cost-cutting or flag waving move.  Just being smart.

Do you really think someone is going to give Eduardo five years and nine figures this winter? He’s going to be 31 next year, he hasn’t had a really good season since 2019, his health is not great, he might have long COVID, and he bugged out on the team for a good part of last year. Does someone really want to take a chance on him for five years?

[Tenacious D]

6 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Oh wow did not know that, thanks for the heads up. So if by some miracle Javy opts out and signs elsewhere we wouldn't get a comp for him either then? 

I don’t think we’ll need to worry.

[buddha]

the important thing is the sox lost again.

7-20!!!!!

keep your eyes on the prize, people!  **** them sox.

[buddha]

[Tenacious D]

17 minutes ago, buddha said:

the important thing is the sox lost again.

7-20!!!!!

keep your eyes on the prize, people!  **** them sox.

What a colossal failure.  Maybe historic.  A couple of years ago I thought they were the best team in baseball and would be able to sustain dominance, at least in the division, for years to come.  I was actually very bummed about those prospects.

[mtutiger]

Continues to be one of the few bright spots this season... clear area of improvement 

[Edman85]

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