mtutiger Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Good point. That will likely be the middle infield next year. I think Schoop will bounce back next year. Some players drop off a cliff when they hit 30, but it seems like that is usually accompanied by injuries and poor defense which definitely hasn't been his problem. Without doing any research, losing it offensively without losing anything defensively seems atypical. Agree on all points - I think he comes back and he players better. He did switch agents recently, but I suspect he's not opting out, he'd never get the salary he'll command next year. As I see it, of the regulars, they separate into three buckets: Coming back - Greene (CF), Baez (SS), Schoop (2B), Meadows (LF/RF/DH), Torkelson* (1B) On the bubble, bench players or gone - Candelario (3B), Haase (C), Baddoo/Reyes/Castro (LF/RF), Barnhart, (C) The second category (not all inclusive) is where they need to focus their attention most IMO. Particularly 3B and additional outfielders if Rogers comes back and looks halfway respectable.... What makes it difficult is that 3B is pretty lean this offseason and with OF in particular, they really need one that is a switch hitter or bats right given how lefty heavy they are (with Greene/Meadows being L/L guys). I don't know how his defense is, but someone like Mitch Haniger (if he comes back and performs after coming back off of injury) and Jurickson Profar come to mind there. I suspect that they end up tendering Candy in the end and, if they are active, they probably focus a lot on OF. But who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 C- Haase, Rogers, Sanchez, with Dingler probably still in future plans - with so many problems, this may just be it unfortunately 1b - Tork; need to have back up plan, which might be Schoop 2b - Javy SS - 3 elite SS and Swanson will be available - get one 3b - goodbye to Candy; Kreidler; Clemens?; rando cheap FA LF - Meadows, Baddoo, Carpenter (DH too) CF - Greene RF- need RH power Castros, Victor, Daz, Short - irrelevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 This thread's current trend has me laughing my ass off. The AL ops average is .730. Hitting Harold is at what? .715? and Haase is at maybe .712 On the position side of things, Haase (as a backup catcher),Greene, and Baez are the only position players we have worthy of being considered MLB utility grade players, with maybe Baez being a starter. The rest are just organizational cannon fodder.If Miggy retires, and the Tigers restructure his contract to be paid over20 - 25 years, cash would be freed up. Show me a lineup that can bat at least a .720 ops clip, then I will get excited about the Tigers short to intermediate term chances. We have to remember that we are currently talking about a team that will struggle to obtain an OPS 0f .590 by year end. We are a minimum of 4 quality position players short of being mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: As for Miggy, maybe the Tigers can structure a Bobby Bonilla-type payout: instead of paying him $32 million next year, maybe they start paying him, I don’t know, let’s say, $5 million a year from 2028-2050. Something like that. That frees up payroll from the next few years, then the Tigers can pay him out of the pile of money they’ll have from all the championships they win. 😏 Instead of paying him $32 million now, you want to pay him $110 million over 22 years (or $216,961,450 given a 6% interest rate)? No, give him the $32 million now and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Not an earth shattering signing, but Wilmer Flores' brother Wilmer Flores makes a lot of sense with where they are in terms of infield versatility and with as many question marks that they have at 1B / 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 The Tigers could do a lot worse than a bunch of high floor utility guys. Look at this season, we have no space-fillers for guys who are having historically bad offensive seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 On 7/9/2022 at 10:24 PM, Tiger337 said: There is no reason for him to retire even if they pay him. He is still reasonably productive and has actually been durable this year. I doubt he'll want to play beyond next year in a part-time role and smaller salary, although Pujols is doing it so you never know. Maybe it's just me but... I don't think this is going to age well... IIRC: Jim Cowan was also on the bandwagon of there is absolutely no reason that Miggy won't play next year. I can think of a few... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Agree on all points - I think he comes back and he players better. He did switch agents recently, but I suspect he's not opting out, he'd never get the salary he'll command next year. As I see it, of the regulars, they separate into three buckets: Coming back - Greene (CF), Baez (SS), Schoop (2B), Meadows (LF/RF/DH), Torkelson* (1B) On the bubble, bench players or gone - Candelario (3B), Haase (C), Baddoo/Reyes/Castro (LF/RF), Barnhart, (C) The second category (not all inclusive) is where they need to focus their attention most IMO. Particularly 3B and additional outfielders if Rogers comes back and looks halfway respectable.... What makes it difficult is that 3B is pretty lean this offseason and with OF in particular, they really need one that is a switch hitter or bats right given how lefty heavy they are (with Greene/Meadows being L/L guys). I don't know how his defense is, but someone like Mitch Haniger (if he comes back and performs after coming back off of injury) and Jurickson Profar come to mind there. I suspect that they end up tendering Candy in the end and, if they are active, they probably focus a lot on OF. But who knows. I think Candelario is in the "Coming Back" section. He is... until he isn't. And right now... he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Maybe it's just me but... I don't think this is going to age well... I hope it doesn't. I'd have been happy if he was done a few years ago. His first nine years were awesome - the best Tigers hitter of my lifetime by far. The last six years he has been a replacement level DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I was ready to move on last year too but... the clamor for him to reach his milestones won me over. I'm glad he got his 500 last year and his 3,000th hit this year... But at this point he's no longer even a replacement DH. Have some dignity and retire Miggy... after this season would be perfect timing. We'll cut you a check for $40 mill for your retirement planning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: IIRC: Jim Cowan was also on the bandwagon of there is absolutely no reason that Miggy won't play next year. I can think of a few... I'm in that boat too, but it was hard to ever believe that would be the case without the "Big Man" saying it himself. That changed yesterday... he came out and said it... in the grand scheme of things, as bad as the lineup is and the fact that Miguel still probably isn't the worst part of the lineup, it's a positive development in the grand scheme of things. Just as the Tigers need to close the book on the Avila era, they need to close the book on Miguel as well. Edited August 5, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Maybe it's just me but... I don't think this is going to age well... IIRC: Jim Cowan was also on the bandwagon of there is absolutely no reason that Miggy won't play next year. I can think of a few... No shame in that. I think it all comes down to his knee. Earlier in the year he was driving off it at least occasionally and it looked like it might have reached some stable condition - under which circumstance I'm sure he would try to come back for next year. But if his physical condition is deteriorating that changes things. If he suddenly feels better tomorrow or someone comes up with a helpful therapy, his outlook will no doubt reverse again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: just give him a literal GIANT CHECK for $40M; stretching it out might give Chris too many BS excuses over the next few years to not do something On the memo line: DFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: I think Candelario is in the "Coming Back" section. He is... until he isn't. And right now... he is. I tend to agree as of now. He's had a truly amazingly awful season and the plate and in the field. He's at $5.8M this season. I think they current organization will stick with him and assume he bounces back next season (and at some point this season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Maybe it's just me but... I don't think this is going to age well... IIRC: Jim Cowan was also on the bandwagon of there is absolutely no reason that Miggy won't play next year. I can think of a few... LOL I think you were on the bandwagon of immediate retirement after 3,000 hits! I think the knee injury might finally finish him off, but it's not over yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I thought he was done when he started out poorly in 2020. He was constantly injured and couldn't be played in the field anymore. I thought cutting him at that point was the right move. Since the rebuild stalled keeping hasn't really mattered. And he has stayed more healthy than i figured he would since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 5, 2022 Author Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, bobrob2004 said: Instead of paying him $32 million now, you want to pay him $110 million over 22 years (or $216,961,450 given a 6% interest rate)? No, give him the $32 million now and be done with it. I'm not saying this is what I personally want. I'm just speculating that if the Tigers were married to the idea that $32 million next year would prevent them from going after the replacement talent they would need to acquire after sending Miggy packing, one way they could get that money off the 2023 books is to defer the salary in a Bobby Bonilla-type annuity move. I don't care about whatever the actual numbers end up being. The point is, to whatever degree his money wouldn't prevent them from spending what they must to effectively replace him—whether it's deferring the money to free up the books, or increasing next year's budget by $32 million to cover the dead money—that's what I want. But if I were to learn that they wrote Miggy a check for $40 million (including his 2024 buyout), gave him a gold watch and then the gate, and then they held back on spending to replace him because of the $32 million still on the 2023 books in an acceptance of the losing that would follow, that would make me unhappy. Edited August 5, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkelly Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 On 8/4/2022 at 1:54 AM, Jim Cowan said: Well but I see it the opposite way, his reputation as a guy who can't lead a clubhouse has everything to do with the mutiny about the garbage cans. That is a valid observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkelly Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Miggy will be back next year. What's it really going to hurt? This organization has no offensive player, absolutely no one that is a legit average or above average MLB player that is on the major league roster or close to being in the majors. But the rebuild is over. ` It's hard to get mad at Avila because he has already proven he is awful at his job, but it isn't his fault he is still employed. Ilitch isn't going to fire him and pay two people a salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said: LOL I think you were on the bandwagon of immediate retirement after 3,000 hits! I think the knee injury might finally finish him off, but it's not over yet. Oh I was on the bandwagon to part ways with him last year. I'm ready to move on and try out new guys like Isaac Paredes (whoops, too late!), Kerry Carpenter, Austin Meadows, and/ or whoever else we can drop into that spot just to see if anything sticks. Starting last year... I was going to say "what's the point of stringing out Miggy's time in MLB, he's done for..." But like I said, I was ready last year and was outvoted so that he could hit his milestones. And I'm glad I switched trains and jumped on board with the milestones... And I probably was ready also, like you say, right after he got his 3,000 to move on... but I can wait for the offseason. But it is time to move on. Before he embarrasses himself. It was pretty hysterical though to read that "there's NO POSSIBLE REASON WHATSOEVER that he will retire before the 2023 season..." because, like I said... I can think of a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 42 minutes ago, gkelly said: Miggy will be back next year. ... Nope. Wrong answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 44 minutes ago, gkelly said: Miggy will be back next year. What's it really going to hurt? You'll have to ask Miggy that question. Whether he comes back next year or not is kind of up to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 How many players have walked away from $30 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkelly Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) The Tigers aren't going to force him out. He seems like he enjoys playing still. Do you think Ilitch really cares? He's going to pay the guy anyway, plus throwing out a beloved icon hasn't really worked out in the past for the franchise. It's not like they are going to be contenders next year and who else do they have in their organization? He'll play out next year and when his contract is over retire, they will have Miggy day for the fans...maybe a nice retirement tour. Edited August 5, 2022 by gkelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, gkelly said: He seems like he enjoys playing still. that is the question going forward. If there there is too much pain there will be a lot less joy! But OTOH, Miggy is no fool. He's going to force the Tigers to at least make a settlement on most of his remaining contract - like TM said - he's not just going to walk away from the $. If that means staying in the lineup until it hurts the team badly enough that they agree to put on the 60 day through 2023 (or DFA) that's probably what makes most sense for him to do. Edited August 5, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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