2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Motor City Sonics]

Okay,  What are you,  Newbies?     Teams never say what they are really up to before the draft.   Come on, people. 

 

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Okay,  What are you,  Newbies?     Teams never say what they are really up to before the draft.   Come on, people. 

That's not true. Bob Quinn told the entire world the Lions weren't drafting a QB in the first round in 2020.

[Motown Bombers]

17 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

That's not true. Bob Quinn told the entire world the Lions weren't drafting a QB in the first round in 2020.

How did he do that? When he had Tua for a pre draft visit? When he contacted Saban about Tua's medical status? 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

How did he do that? When he had Tua for a pre draft visit? When he contacted Saban about Tua's medical status? 

Detroit Free Press: Detroit Lions' Bob Quinn to Matthew Stafford: 'We're not trading you. Period.'

Among other things, when he said they weren't moving on from Stafford. 

"I called Matthew and I said, 'Listen, I haven’t had one conversation. I’m not trying to — we’re not trading you. Period,' " Quinn said.

[Motown Bombers]

6 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Detroit Free Press: Detroit Lions' Bob Quinn to Matthew Stafford: 'We're not trading you. Period.'

Among other things, when he said they weren't moving on from Stafford. 

"I called Matthew and I said, 'Listen, I haven’t had one conversation. I’m not trying to — we’re not trading you. Period,' " Quinn said.

Right, he said he wasn't trading Stafford. The fact is, he couldn't for three reasons:

1. Ownership gave him a mandate to make the playoffs 

2. It would have been an over $30 million cap hit if they did trade Stafford.

3. He was coming off a back injury in which he missed 8 games. It would be the ultimate sell low.

He was putting to rest rumors they were trading Stafford. You don't want to upset your franchise QB just for a draft trade, which you don't seem to understand that teams would be trading to get ahead of the Giants and not whether they were keeping Stafford. It's also weird you don't have the same criticism for Campbell for making it known Goff is his guy. Anyways, saying you aren't trading Stafford does not mean that you aren't drafting a QB. Are you saying then if Holmes says Goff is not going to be traded that is telling the entire world they are not drafting a QB?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Motown Bombers

[Motown Bombers]

Even from your link:

"Quinn — who was part of the New England Patriots' front office when the team took Jimmy Garoppolo in the second round of the 2014 draft (with a 36-year-old Tom Brady on their roster) — said Tuesday he has not ruled out taking a quarterback in the first round."

[MichiganCardinal]

Teams never come out and say “we really want to draft X!” … that would be gross incompetence and gross incompetence gets you either fired or promoted to OC of the New England Patriots.

Poorly run organizations do tip their hand though - either via leaks or public comment. It doesn’t matter how obvious it was in hindsight that Quinn wasn’t going to trade Stafford, he diminished his standing by saying so publicly before the draft. There were leaks within those close to the organization about Hockenson too.

I believe that Carter is off the draft board of the Raiders. And that someone in the org leaked it because the org is poorly run. And that McDaniels tried to do damage control by denying the report and is really just making things worse.

[Jason_R]

People even 4D chess is not good enough. We need our franchise to play at least 6D chess. 

[Motor City Sonics]

9 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

That's not true. Bob Quinn told the entire world the Lions weren't drafting a QB in the first round in 2020.

Well.........Bob Quinn was nothing but an errand boy sent by Bill Belichick to collect an overdue bill.  

Like Al Avila broadcasting who we wanted to trade to everyone.       

We could have managed teams better - any of us.   

[Motor City Sonics]

I do think Carter is plummeting.      The drag racing is not the worst thing in the world for a 19/20 year old, but the fact that he just left the scene where two people he knew were in a bad enough accident to die is kind of a red flag.    But I think more than that - being out of condition for his pro day.   Rumors that he would routinely show up late for football-related things at UGA.    I don't know, man.    As someone mentioned here Nick Fairley had those issues and being around the pro attitude didn't do much for him.  

The Lions do have the luxury to take him as a project at #18, but I don't know that he falls that far.    The Lions want guys with their mentality to hit the ground running.  This team is legitimately trying to set themselves up for a long playoff run and an actual Super Bowl.    If they play well next year and win the division,  Ford Field will be insane for a playoff game and should they actually win a game or two - the whole country is going to be behind this team.  

[MichiganCardinal]

A name I’ve seen dropping in recent mocks, partially due to a hamstring injury, has been Myles Murphy. If the Lions do go Bijan at #6, Murphy may be BPA on defense at #18.

His ceiling is probably as high as Will Anderson’s, though his floor is a fair bit lower. One of the scouting reports I read said that he would do well to get drafted by a motivating coach who could get the most out of him. Dan Campbell fits that bill, and Holmes has shown he’s not afraid to take players with injury risk.

[Jason_R]

Here is Birkett relating the case for Detroit being able to rehabilitate Carter:

https://www.motownlions.com/2023/03/31/detroit-lions-drafting-jalen-carter-one-of-the-few-teams-where-it-could-be-a-home-run/

[Longgone]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I do think Carter is plummeting.      The drag racing is not the worst thing in the world for a 19/20 year old, but the fact that he just left the scene where two people he knew were in a bad enough accident to die is kind of a red flag.    But I think more than that - being out of condition for his pro day.   Rumors that he would routinely show up late for football-related things at UGA.    I don't know, man.    As someone mentioned here Nick Fairley had those issues and being around the pro attitude didn't do much for him.  

The Lions do have the luxury to take him as a project at #18, but I don't know that he falls that far.    The Lions want guys with their mentality to hit the ground running.  This team is legitimately trying to set themselves up for a long playoff run and an actual Super Bowl.    If they play well next year and win the division,  Ford Field will be insane for a playoff game and should they actually win a game or two - the whole country is going to be behind this team.  

To me it's pass/fail, if, after you do your due diligence, he passes as an acceptable level of risk, take him at 6, if not, take him off your board.

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

A name I’ve seen dropping in recent mocks, partially due to a hamstring injury, has been Myles Murphy. If the Lions do go Bijan at #6, Murphy may be BPA on defense at #18.

His ceiling is probably as high as Will Anderson’s, though his floor is a fair bit lower. One of the scouting reports I read said that he would do well to get drafted by a motivating coach who could get the most out of him. Dan Campbell fits that bill, and Holmes has shown he’s not afraid to take players with injury risk.

W Anderson, T Wilson, M Murphy, and K White (and maybe L Van Ness) all look to be uber-athletic, 3 down DEs.

White might have the highest ceiling among this group; and could be available early in the second round.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Here is Birkett relating the case for Detroit being able to rehabilitate Carter:

https://www.motownlions.com/2023/03/31/detroit-lions-drafting-jalen-carter-one-of-the-few-teams-where-it-could-be-a-home-run/

love it.

you're at #6 and not likely (god willing) to be therr again for a while.  seing for the fences on talent.  who are the most gifted players in this draft?  jalen carter, will anderson, christian gonzalez.....and anthony richardson.  maybe wilson too.

go get one of them and worry about "fit" later.

[Stanley70]

24 minutes ago, buddha said:

love it.

you're at #6 and not likely (god willing) to be therr again for a while.  seing for the fences on talent.  who are the most gifted players in this draft?  jalen carter, will anderson, christian gonzalez.....and anthony richardson.  maybe wilson too.

go get one of them and worry about "fit" later.

Agreed. Holmes has shown he can patch holes in free agency. Find the top level talent in the draft. 

[Jason_R]

6 hours ago, buddha said:

love it.

you're at #6 and not likely (god willing) to be therr again for a while.  seing for the fences on talent.  who are the most gifted players in this draft?  jalen carter, will anderson, christian gonzalez.....and anthony richardson.  maybe wilson too.

go get one of them and worry about "fit" later.

I’m still not sure if he did anything I would consider “bad.” Yes, he may have been immature. Yes, there may be some unreported incidents. Yes, he was not in great shape for his workout. Yes, all these are red flags. But I haven’t heard anything yet that makes me think he shouldn’t be on the draft board. Maybe he just needs some father figures and big brothers to keep him focused. 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Jason_R said:

I’m still not sure if he did anything I would consider “bad.” Yes, he may have been immature. Yes, there may be some unreported incidents. Yes, he was not in great shape for his workout. Yes, all these are red flags. But I haven’t heard anything yet that makes me think he shouldn’t be on the draft board. Maybe he just needs some father figures and big brothers to keep him focused. 

I don't claimi to have followed this story with any level of attention but if he left the scene of an accident where his friends may have been killed I'd rate that pretty low on the basic human behavior scale - but I'd accept it may have been more complex than that simple reading.

[buddha]

32 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't claimi to have followed this story with any level of attention but if he left the scene of an accident where his friends may have been killed I'd rate that pretty low on the basic human behavior scale - but I'd accept it may have been more complex than that simple reading.

i suspect its a lot more complicated than that.  even if he did, for someone his age to panic in a situation like that would not be uncommon.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

i suspect its a lot more complicated than that.  even if he did, for someone his age to panic in a situation like that would not be uncommon.

well, I'd argue there is a difference between actual panic and cowardice that is oft glossed, but be that as it may.

Edited April 1, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well, I'd argue there is a difference between actual panic and cowardice that is oft glossed, but be that as it may.

he's a kid.  kids make mistakes, do stupid shit, and panic.  it shouldnt mark you for the rest of your life.

[Jason_R]

Maybe I haven’t followed closely enough but I have heard mixed reports on leaving the scene. 

Also, I’m not a lawyer but I’m not sure that even if he did leave the scene of this accident that he would be guilty of a crime. He was not in the car with the decedents and his car (to the best of my knowledge) did not impact theirs or otherwise cause their accident. 

Again, he may be guilty of a lot of things here, and some of them may even be crimes. But what I’ve heard points to tragic immaturity. This may or may not disqualify him but in my mind what I know does not disqualify him. 

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

he's a kid.  kids make mistakes, do stupid shit, and panic.  it shouldnt mark you for the rest of your life.

Speaking here of course to the general case  - making the judgment that until such a person actually reaches the point in his life where he has learned not to "do stupid shit and panic"  he's not a person I want to pay a lot of money to to be on my football team is hardly  "marking him for life". One might as easily call it 'enabling' 

Everyone has the right to 'grow up'. They don't have the a priori right to do it on anyone else in particular's nickel.

A team may be willing to take a chance on an character challanged player because there could be a big payoff if the team wins, but don't try to dress that up as some kind of attempt at using sport as a morally restorative exercise - it's a purely $ driven risk/reward calculation, and any transformation in the player is purely serendipity. The average fan's interest in such a player's 'welfare' is no less selfish either.

Edited April 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

25 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Speaking here of course to the general case  - making the judgment that until such a person actually reaches the point in his life where he has learned not to "do stupid shit and panic"  he's not a person I want to pay a lot of money to to be on my football team is hardly  "marking him for life". One might as easily call it 'enabling' 

Everyone has the right to 'grow up'. They don't have the a priori right to do it on anyone else in particular's nickel.

A team may be willing to take a chance on an character challanged player because there could be a big payoff if the team wins, but don't try to dress that up as some kind of attempt at using sport as a morally restorative exercise - it's a purely $ driven risk/reward calculation, and any transformation in the player is purely serendipity. The average fan's interest in such a player's 'welfare' is no less selfish either.

i dont know what youre on about.  as usual.

you draft jalen carter because he's one of the only people on the planet who can do what he does.  the fact that someone he left a bar with, in a car next to him, crashed and died is not a reason not to draft him into your team.  not in my opinion.

nobody is dressing up sport as a moral resorative exercise or whatever psychobabble youre preaching.  jalen carter is a huge dancing bear who can get to a quarterback in less than three seconds.  that's what this is all about.

[gehringer_2]

21 minutes ago, buddha said:

carter is a huge dancing bear who can get to a quarterback in less than three seconds.  that's what this is all about.

and maybe he's a dancing bear that turns around and mauls you with some other piece of 'dumb shit" when he's off the chain. It's about the dollars and the risk, not about 'giving the kid's a second chance', which is what you were preaching a couple of posts earlier. That's why if no team takes him at 6 some team will take him at 20 or 35  - because the dollar end of the risk is going down at that point, not because of any change in any other "character' part of the equation or desire not to 'mark him for life'.

Edited April 2, 2023 by gehringer_2