1984Echoes Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, sagnam said: The point is the data you are quoting is just as stupid as the alternatives. So relax. The Lions hopefully aren’t drafting a G/T at 6, but some janky draft site is just as credible as Lions beat writers on the matter. I just said that I am not RELYING on any janky draft sites... I am RELYING on Holmes/ Campbell's stated draft philosophies/ actual draft history/ actual scouts and interviews and visits with players, etc... The only ACTUAL thing I may rely on, and this also would be a Holmes/ Campbell thing... is if they had this so under wraps that they were actually interested in Sko and scouting him but nothing publicly, like public interviews/ visits. Certainly NOT that, oh, Birkett & Rogers mocked him so they must be interested in him. No, their mocks don't hold water. IMO. However... the "possibility" that the Lions were hiding/ disguising their interest is a much more credible take to me, if that was the direction they were going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 13 hours ago, Jason_R said: It only maybe made sense if they cut Vaitai and/or before re-signing Glasgow. They still need more depth at RG since both Vaitai and Ragnow have health concerns and Glasgow is the backup for both of them. Yeah, that's my issue with this pick especially with the Lions in win now mode not to mention the issue of Skoronski with the T-Rex arms likely forcing him to guard long term. Skoronski would be a long term play which is fine but you're likely not getting much from him next season and if I'm doing a long term play at pick 6 for a player who will be a backup to start, it'll be a QB because of positional importance (not that I'd want to do that either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 That, and IIRC... I mean correct me if I'm wrong... But both Campbell and Holmes have stated that they pay attention to positional value. And Guards are not 1st round positional value unless it's at the end of the first and some dominant guard. I also believe they've stated numerous times, that they use the top of the draft to hunt for playmakers and/or game-breaking playmakers. That means OT's, QB's, pass-rushers, WR's, CB's, and RB's. And because this game has devalued RB's so much, probably not RB's either. But these are Holmes/ DC's OWN WORDS... and I think that Holmes is a... Man of his Word. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 43 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: assuming Vatai can stay on the field also. well ok. youre right. if every offensive lineman on the team gets injured, the lions are probably in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, buddha said: well ok. youre right. if every offensive lineman on the team gets injured, the lions are probably in trouble. Football today is as much about attrition as top line talent and linemen do get hurt a lot. Successful seasons usually end up as much about quality depth as September starter talent level. It's just a matter of degree and $$ deciding how much to backstop each position. Tactically OLine is a terrible place to run out of depth because if any one position can't hold its ground virtually every offensive play is at risk. In contrast, if you have to put in a poor backup receiver, the other team still has to spend a body to cover him. Have to play a bad OT/OG he can get blown up on *every* play. If a team is going to splurge on depth, OLine and CB are the places for me. Edited March 30, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I rarely see OL listed as a need, but to me the need is high. The back up OT is the starting RG, who missed last season with a back injury, and is in the last year of his deal, just like the starting LG and their main back up, who also back ups an oft injured C. I have seen a few mocks with Skoronski available at 18 - but I doubt he will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 The backup OT is Matt Nelson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 18 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: I rarely see OL listed as a need, but to me the need is high. The back up OT is the starting RG, who missed last season with a back injury, and is in the last year of his deal, just like the starting LG and their main back up, who also back ups an oft injured C. I have seen a few mocks with Skoronski available at 18 - but I doubt he will be. there are other olineman who profile as tackle/guard hybrids who you can pick up in rounds 2 or 3. the lions are in a position where they dont have to draft any position and can go a lot of different ways. if skoronski is the highest player on their board, then take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: the lions are in a position where they dont have to draft any position and can go a lot of different ways. sure - props to Holmes to have gotten to this position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 23 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The backup OT is Matt Nelson. if the lions draft an olineman in the first three rounds, nelson is probably on the practice squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I just don’t see the guy who Holmes will run to the podium to pick at 6. Maybe Gonzalez merits a brisk walk at 6, but not a run. Carter? He’ll be walking on eggshells. His first draft everyone was hoping Sewell would drop. Last year it was Hutch. This year he’ll have a big decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jason_R said: I just don’t see the guy who Holmes will run to the podium to pick at 6. Maybe Gonzalez merits a brisk walk at 6, but not a run. Carter? He’ll be walking on eggshells. His first draft everyone was hoping Sewell would drop. Last year it was Hutch. This year he’ll have a big decision. he's probably going to have to take someone so it will just come down to whether a CB, DT or OT is highest on their board. At the end of the day, I'd pick DT, CB, OT, LB as the most likely 1st 4, in whatever order. Edited March 30, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jason_R said: I just don’t see the guy who Holmes will run to the podium to pick at 6. Maybe Gonzalez merits a brisk walk at 6, but not a run. Carter? He’ll be walking on eggshells. His first draft everyone was hoping Sewell would drop. Last year it was Hutch. This year he’ll have a big decision. Gonzalez was a nobody a little over a year ago. He had just transferred to Oregon after being the 2nd best corner on a no good Colorado team. He is a natural safety that came later to being a CB. He had one real good season with the Ducks and an impressive combine and here we are. I’m not saying he’s going to be a bust but I don’t see a guy that you plug in from day 1 and has a good chance of being your starter for the next 8 years. I think he needs more time to develop than a few of the other corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I still wouldn’t rule out Bijan at #6. If Will Anderson isn’t there and a trade isn’t available, I wouldn’t put it past Holmes to just take the best player on his board no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I personally like Witherspoon the best out of all the DBs, to me he just fits the mold of what you want in your top DB and could potentially be a lock down guy from day 1 like Sauce was last year and Surtain II was the year before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: I still wouldn’t rule out Bijan at #6. If Will Anderson isn’t there and a trade isn’t available, I wouldn’t put it past Holmes to just take the best player on his board no matter what. I can maybe get behind the idea of Bijan at #18 but at #6, I just can't do it. I'd want Holmes to go and draft Skoronski at #6 before Bijan. The shelf life of a running back is just too short and this draft has a decent amount of backs that could be found later on. If Holmes to Bijan at #6 I would really question that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 To me there just isn't a ton of disparity in this draft between the players you can get at 6 and 18 so it really doesn't matter to me if they "reach" for a guy they really like at 6 that they potentially could've gotten at 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I can maybe get behind the idea of Bijan at #18 but at #6, I just can't do it. I'd want Holmes to go and draft Skoronski at #6 before Bijan. The shelf life of a running back is just too short and this draft has a decent amount of backs that could be found later on. If Holmes to Bijan at #6 I would really question that. I would question it for similar reasons, but at the same time if the Marshall Faulk comparisons are what Holmes sees in Bijan, I wouldn’t fault him for just making the pick and flipping Swift for a late 2nd day or early 3rd day pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: To me there just isn't a ton of disparity in this draft between the players you can get at 6 and 18 so it really doesn't matter to me if they "reach" for a guy they really like at 6 that they potentially could've gotten at 18. Does drafting a player at an underutilized position, with a short shelf life, in RB, constitute as a reach? I think if we are comparing drafting Joey Porter Jr. vs Christian Gonzalez or Nolan Smith vs Tyree Wilson at #6, the talent disparity isn't gigantic and it wouldn't be an egregious reach to take one over the other. However, when you throw in a guy like Bijan and recognize that even good RBs have a shorter shelf life than most players and they play at a position that is becoming increasingly devalued in the NFL, I think that's a reach too far. I'd have to get at least one of the top non-RB positions on my board before taking Bijan. Preferably, I'd like to get two of those guys and bump drafting a RB to the 2nd round or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Marshall Faulk was a 2,000 yard from scrimmage player. That's not underutilized. That would be the most utilized player on the field outside of the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Does drafting a player at an underutilized position, with a short shelf life, in RB, constitute as a reach? I think if we are comparing drafting Joey Porter Jr. vs Christian Gonzalez or Nolan Smith vs Tyree Wilson at #6, the talent disparity isn't gigantic and it wouldn't be an egregious reach to take one over the other. However, when you throw in a guy like Bijan and recognize that even good RBs have a shorter shelf life than most players and they play at a position that is becoming increasingly devalued in the NFL, I think that's a reach too far. I'd have to get at least one of the top non-RB positions on my board before taking Bijan. Preferably, I'd like to get two of those guys and bump drafting a RB to the 2nd round or later. To me like just about any other position it comes down to how you view him compared to what you could get later on in the draft. If they feel Bijan is head and shoulders better than any RB they could get in day 2 or 3 then I have no problem taking him at 6 even with the shorter shelf life of RBs. If you get 4-5 elite impactful years out of him where he helps take the offense to another level would anybody really care if he flames out after that and look back at the pick as being a waste? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: To me like just about any other position it comes down to how you view him compared to what you could get later on in the draft. If they feel Bijan is head and shoulders better than any RB they could get in day 2 or 3 then I have no problem taking him at 6 even with the shorter shelf life of RBs. If you get 4-5 elite impactful years out of him where he helps take the offense to another level would anybody really care if he flames out after that and look back at the pick as being a waste? Would anyone say the Suh pick was wasted? The Lions got 5 years of elite play from Suh and he was gone. There's also concern the other prospects aren't sure things. I could see Robinson ending up like Hockenson. He'll be a good player but is not quite the next Marshall Faulk so everyone will be like see you shouldn't draft a RB that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Part of it too goes to the proverbial window of opportunity. Unless you have Patrick Mahomes, you are probably not going to be in the Conference Championship Game every season. There will be ebbs and flows to your success.. We are certainly entering a window in 2023. If Bijan gives us five Pro Bowl years, I don't think that's a wasted pick at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 50 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: I still wouldn’t rule out Bijan at #6. If Will Anderson isn’t there and a trade isn’t available, I wouldn’t put it past Holmes to just take the best player on his board no matter what. Yes, he’s the sneaky one. I could kind of see Holmes sprinting up and saying we are going to get 1800+ yards from scrimmage and 15 TDs a season from this guy for five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, MichiganCardinal said: Part of it too goes to the proverbial window of opportunity. Unless you have Patrick Mahomes, you are probably not going to be in the Conference Championship Game every season. There will be ebbs and flows to your success.. We are certainly entering a window in 2023. If Bijan gives us five Pro Bowl years, I don't think that's a wasted pick at all. Yep, that's the problem with usually taking RBs early is cause normally the teams picking in the top 5 are a couple years away from getting to their window so you waste a portion of their prime years on bad teams like the Giants did with Barkley. That shouldn't be the case with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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