2023 NFL Draft Thread

[buddha]

another thing, the lions organization is stronger - and run by stronger people - than it was when matt millen was here.

at least that's the reputation.  if so, that could be an environment wherr someone who needs direction does well?  i dont know that, but it could be true whereas before it was definitely not true.

[Motown Bombers]

Titus Young was frequently suspended at Boise State and Charles Rogers tested positive multiple times for weed, showed up to the combine testing for a masking agent, and wouldn't you know it he ends up getting suspended in the NFL for drugs. Hard to see that one coming. 

[Motown Bombers]

Charles Rogers wasn't done in by injuries. After getting injured he got suspended for drugs and then he showed up to camp so out of shape. He was so out of shape that no other team even wanted to give him a chance being only 3 years removed from being the 2nd overall pick. The warning signs were there but the Lions decided to draft him from the moment he left college instead of moving on to Andre Johnson. 

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Charles Rogers had a drug problem. Titus Young had psychiatric problems.

As far as we know Jalen Carter drives too fast and may be depressed over his connection with a fatal car crash — in which he was not the driver and he did not collide with the other vehicle. Not every red flag is the same. 

Are you saying that being out of shape and having a bad workout were because he was depressed over the accident?    Has a that been reported anywhere or is that an assumption on your end?  

[Jason_R]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Are you saying that being out of shape and having a bad workout were because he was depressed over the accident?    Has a that been reported anywhere or is that an assumption on your end?  

Yes it is complete speculation. But it is not out of the realm of possibility that a person could feel guilt and sadness after being part of such a tragic event. In fact, if a person did not feel guilt and sadness after being part of such a tragic event they would be somehow inhuman. So yes, total speculation, based on years of observation of the human condition. 

[RandyMarsh]

His trial or atleast sentencing was the day after that workout so his mind may have been elsewhere at the time as well. 

Still doesnt look good either way for him but there is atleast some outside circumstances(brought on by him of course) that could  possibly explain his performance that day. 

With that said my biggest fear with drafting him is how it may effect the mentality of the rest of the team. For 2 years management has preached character and work ethic to the players and now they draft a guy at 6 and in turn give millions a dollar to somebody that atleast on the surface is questionable at both. Could that lead to guys changing their own work ethic after seeing them reward a guy like that? 

[Jason_R]

49 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

His trial or atleast sentencing was the day after that workout so his mind may have been elsewhere at the time as well. 

Still doesnt look good either way for him but there is atleast some outside circumstances(brought on by him of course) that could  possibly explain his performance that day. 

With that said my biggest fear with drafting him is how it may effect the mentality of the rest of the team. For 2 years management has preached character and work ethic to the players and now they draft a guy at 6 and in turn give millions a dollar to somebody that atleast on the surface is questionable at both. Could that lead to guys changing their own work ethic after seeing them reward a guy like that? 

This is reasonable. 

I’m not saying the guy doesn’t have red flags. He does. But not every red flag is the same. 

OTOH Parcells said when you make exceptions you can end up with a locker room full of them. 

[Motown Bombers]

Trade 18 for Simmons and Tennessee had ammo to trade for 3. 

 

[RandyMarsh]

19 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Trade 18 for Simmons and Tennessee had ammo to trade for 3. 

 

I hope the Lions are atleast kicking the tires on this. To me this would be a dream scenario and seems to be a perfect fit and trade for both teams. 

[Hongbit]

8 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Yes it is complete speculation. But it is not out of the realm of possibility that a person could feel guilt and sadness after being part of such a tragic event. In fact, if a person did not feel guilt and sadness after being part of such a tragic event they would be somehow inhuman. So yes, total speculation, based on years of observation of the human condition. 

Thank god for the smell, otherwise I may have stepped in it.   💩 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Hongbit

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

His trial or atleast sentencing was the day after that workout so his mind may have been elsewhere at the time as well. 

Still doesnt look good either way for him but there is atleast some outside circumstances(brought on by him of course) that could  possibly explain his performance that day. 

With that said my biggest fear with drafting him is how it may effect the mentality of the rest of the team. For 2 years management has preached character and work ethic to the players and now they draft a guy at 6 and in turn give millions a dollar to somebody that atleast on the surface is questionable at both. Could that lead to guys changing their own work ethic after seeing them reward a guy like that? 

Cmon now.  This had no impact.  It was a pre-arranged plea deal for a misdemeanor charge.  He was never facing anything serious.  The only thing he had at risk was his draft status.  

[buddha]

1) carter (best player available at the most important position of need)

2) anderson (would affect hutch's productivity but if anderson is von miller-lite, you do it and figure out the fit later)

3) qb (best chance - hopefully - to get a long term solution)

4) gonzalez (best athlete at an important position with long term needs)

[RedRamage]

22 hours ago, buddha said:

oh, so are the raiders.  so much for that report.

I'm SHOCKED... just SHOCKED.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I hope the Lions are atleast kicking the tires on this. To me this would be a dream scenario and seems to be a perfect fit and trade for both teams. 

I would prefer this route.

It negates the obvious attraction to drafting Carter...

And it gets us a superior player to Carter who is actually producing in the NFL exactly as what we would be looking for from Carter to produce... eliminating any uncertainty...

It also opens up #6 to whatever Holmes wants to do otherwise... whether that's Gonzalez, or Bijan, or Wilson or something crazy like Sko or Lucas Van Ness or...?

[RedRamage]

Alright, I see a lot of smack talk going around re: Carter and think many of y'all are being way to black and white on this.  There's a possibility that:

1. Carter is just a kid who made some dumb mistakes, but the consequence of those mistakes are sitting so heavy on him right now.  He's learned his lesson is a horrible way and he just hasn't been able to concentrate on football matters much, which explains being out of shape for his pro-day.  But as I said he's learned his lesson, he's on the straight and narrow now and really to prove all the high drafts on him are right, just give him the chance.

2. Carter has gotten by on talent alone and assumed everything would just fall in place naturally for him. He just never figured any drinking and drive would lead to any danger and it's just dumb bad luck that the other people died. He's entitled and letting all the draft talk go to his head and just expecting to be a top 10 pick and rake in the dough. 

Of course, the reality is that probably both #1 and #2 are wrong and really it's somewhere in the middle.  That's were we need the people making the big bucks to be looking into him and digging up whatever bits they can to paint the most accurate picture on Carter.  I honestly don't know where Carter falls between 1 and 2.  If you can place him at 1.3 or less, I'd probably be happy to take a flyer on him.  If it's more like 1.6 or higher... then I'd say pass.

And now you're asking: "This ain't news to any of us... what's your point?" My point is stop talking in absolutes.  Recognize that it's possible there are enough red flags that Holmes/Campbell know that we don't that they aren't going to draft him, even if he's top tier talent.  Recognize also that Holmes/Campbell have a lot more info than we do and it may be good enough for them to risk drafting him.

[Motown Bombers]

It works for all teams. I can see the Lions trading 18 plus some mid to late round filler for Simmons, Tennessee trading 11, 18 and a future 1st for 3. Tennesse only trades one additional 1st round pick plus a player they are unlikely to sign. Arizona gets three really good picks. 

[Shinzaki]

It's stuck in my head that one year Wayne Fontes ran his mouth a bit and tipped off the Lions draft preference...but the specifics elude me.

There were warning flags about both Charles and Reggie Rogers that the Lions ignored. ..or they were convinced these issues weren't that big of a deal.  Ultimately...I think it's easier to judge character these days because there's typically a history on social media you can look at and teams are spending more resources on mental/psychological evaluations than they did before.

Soo...if they do draft Carter at six...good luck, because that's likely to be the most scrutinized choice in a long while 

 

[NYLion]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

how about laramy tunsil?  warren sapp?

The difference is that those guys had off the field issues, on the field they were slam dunks, add Parsons in there as well. I think the biggest issue with Carter among his detractors are his rumored lazy habits (and you can see in gameplay that he tends to disappear at times) and then The Pro Day confirming some of these fears. Very reminiscent of Fairley in that respect.

I'm not writing off Carter because the upside is so high and I don't really see any franchise talents realistically available at 6 outside of perhaps Tyree Wilson who has all the traits of a potential big time player but the concerns for Carter are very real and legit.

Edited April 3, 2023 by NYLion

[Hongbit]

He wasn’t driving the car.  He was in a totally different vehicle behind the crashed car.  He wasn’t even legally drunk at the time.    He isn’t responsible for anyone’s death.   This whole perception that he must feel guilty and completely shattered for his role in it is crap.   It’s a convenient excuse for people trying to justify why he was fat and out of shape at his workout.  

[RedRamage]

14 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

He wasn’t driving the car.  He was in a totally different vehicle behind the crashed car.  He wasn’t even legally drunk at the time.    He isn’t responsible for anyone’s death.   This whole perception that he must feel guilty and completely shattered for his role in it is crap.   It’s a convenient excuse for people trying to justify why he was fat and out of shape at his workout.  

I think you'd have to be a very cold hearted person to not second guess the whole incident and at least feel some remorse, justified or not. However, I would expect that to have effected him more when it happened.  Two months later I don't expect to see super lingering feelings.

I do think it is possible that him getting charged with doing something wrong effected him mentally, and this might have played some part into his poor pro-day workout.  That said, if it did play a part that doesn't excuse his pro-day... it might explain it and again if that is what happened it's one more data point to put into the equation when you try to calculate who Carter actually is.

 

[Motown Bombers]

Carter didn't seem too upset after it happened when speaking with police and seemed evasive and lied based on what we know now. 

[Motown Bombers]

The accident happened in January. The combine was a month later. His weight gain happened in just two weeks between the combine and pro day. So wouldn't he have been depressed before the combine? 

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Carter didn't seem too upset after it happened when speaking with police and seemed evasive and lied based on what we know now. 

I got lost on the sequence. He left the scene, called a friend, told them to go to the scene, the friend immediately rolls over on him and tells the cops who sent him. So how does AC get back there again? Did the cops call him, bring him back? He just showed up? He's in walking distance? And he has no shoes? Whatever....

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The accident happened in January. The combine was a month later. His weight gain happened in just two weeks between the combine and pro day. So wouldn't he have been depressed before the combine? 

Yeah - you've hit on what is sort of the odd part. I think an alternate explanation might be that he suppliment binged, overdid it and ballooned up some. And the issue at the workout was cramping - which could also fit that scenario.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

16 hours ago, buddha said:

how about laramy tunsil?  warren sapp?

Laramy Tunsil took a bong rip in a gas mask. The only thing that died was the bag of Doritos he scarfed down afterwards. Jalen Carter was allegedly drag racing at an insane rate of speed, allegedly weaving into the wrong lane of traffic. He was not only stupid to put someone else's life in danger, but his own life. Ultimately, someone did die that evening and while it may not have been exactly correlated to what Carter was doing, it was at least adjacent to it. Then, Carter showed up out of shape and not ready to work at his own pro day. And if he's depressed and feels bad about what happened I get that. He's a human being who was there when another human being, who was his friend, lost his life, as a result of something stupid being done. I would hope he feels bad and feels remorse for what happened. But showing up to a job interview in the manner which he did, his pro day, was not ok. He needed to get himself together and ready for the pro day and be open and honest with the world about the horrible situation. I don't know that he did either of those things.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad