MichiganCardinal Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Stanley70 said: They wait another year for a QB they are definitely writing off 2022. And if they improve just a little next year they will be picking out of the top 5. I would be against taking a guy later in the draft that they obviously don't believe in, and then having to give him a couple years. DeShaun Watson will be available and the Lions would probably have the best set of draft picks to offer the Texans. Or you wait another year No easy answers there. I don't see any pathway over the next 8-10 months where the Lions are competitive in 2022. The ceiling for 22 as I see it now is 8-9 or so. Why sell out for 8-9 at the expense of 2023 and beyond? There is a reason MCDC got a six-year deal. Watson is not the answer either. If we were the Broncos, Raiders, or mayybe Steelers, and could legitimately entertain a conversation that we are ONE PIECE - and ONLY that piece - away from contending for a Super Bowl, then and only then might Watson make sense. The amount of draft capital he would take to attain would absolutely force your hand into a win-now mode. If you plugged Watson on this team from week one, we are probably somewhere between 0-6 and 2-4. At that point you can't easily plug the holes you have because you don't have either the capital or the money to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) What's the way out of the conundrum? If you don't stink you don't get a pick high enough to insure you get a top QB prospect. If you wait until the QB is the last piece you need you are probably too good to be able to draft him. I'm not trying to be smart ass here but I don't see how you make passing on a QB when you have a top 1-3 pick work unless the plan is to be winless two years in a row. 🤮 Edited October 18, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Again, passing on a bad QB is better than drafting Mitch Trubisky in the top 3. Some of the best QB’s in this league were taken outside the top 5. A bunch were even taken outside the top 10. That happens when consistently terrible teams draft their bad QB in previous years and pass on the good QBs because they have their guy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, sagnam said: Again, passing on a bad QB is better than drafting Mitch Trubisky in the top 3. Some of the best QB’s in this league were taken outside the top 5. A bunch were even taken outside the top 10. That happens when consistently terrible teams draft their bad QB in previous years and pass on the good QBs because they have their guy. Sure, it can happen, but a lot of things have to go right to get a top QB outside the top 5. I think the better question is whether in a year that the top performing BCS teams don't have a QB the gets the spotlight as a top choice, there isn't a still a top QB out there laboring with a team not good enough for his profile to rise to 'obvious'. Of course ironically that is the guy you are likely to get with a lower pick as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Stanley70 said: They wait another year for a QB they are definitely writing off 2022. And if they improve just a little next year they will be picking out of the top 5. I would be against taking a guy later in the draft that they obviously don't believe in, and then having to give him a couple years. DeShaun Watson will be available and the Lions would probably have the best set of draft picks to offer the Texans. Or you wait another year No easy answers there. the eagles have hurts plus three first round picks. the giants will have a couple too. dolphins. the lions have no way to absorb watson's cap hit plus they dont have any kind of team around him. i think the odds of the lions trading for him are infintessimally small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 10 hours ago, buddha said: the eagles have hurts plus three first round picks. the giants will have a couple too. dolphins. the lions have no way to absorb watson's cap hit plus they dont have any kind of team around him. i think the odds of the lions trading for him are infintessimally small. There's no way the Lions would even look at him with everything that's hanging over him. The Lions just need to look at the draft right now. Right now, I would skip this year's QB bunch, and build up the defense and receiver corp. It's not a great year for receivers, but the Lions have extra picks. I like the 2023 QB class more than the 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) This years draft will be ok for QB's, mediocre for WR, lukewarm/meh for TE, extremely good for Dline, and really exceptional for CB's. Also deep in Safeties and linebackers. I think the Lions have needs all over the field obviously. If I had 1-1, I'd take Kayvon Thibodeaux from Oregon, and make him an OLB opposite Okwara, and try to trade Flowers before the draft for more picks. Edited October 19, 2021 by Cruzer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Watson has a no trade clause. He's not waiving it to come to the Lions. Besides, Houston was 4-12 with him with probably more talent than the Lions. We would a good QB with no talent. It would be Matthew Stafford all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cruzer1 said: This years draft will be ok for QB's, mediocre for WR, lukewarm/meh for TE, extremely good for Dline, and really exceptional for CB's. Also deep in Safeties and linebackers. I think the Lions have needs all over the field obviously. If I had 1-1, I'd take Kayvon Thibodeaux from Oregon, and make him an OLB opposite Okwara, and try to trade Flowers before the draft for more picks. If we're going defense, and I wouldn't mind that at all, I'd be willing to take either Thibodeaux or Aidan Hutchinson #1 overall. We need an explosive, double-digit sack, pass rusher in the worst way. I think either Thibodeaux or Hutchinson would fit that role. Chris Olave is the guy I want with the second 1st rounder if he is still there when we pick at the back end of the 1st. Edited October 19, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 i'd be worried about thibodeaux staying healthy, but if he is, he is what the lions need: an athletic freak, quick twitch pass rusher. hutchinson seems like a guy who will be a really good player, but isnt that type of uber athlete the lions just dont have. more solid than spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 Thibodeaux would be my pick if we were drafting right now over Hutchison or any of the QBs. I still like Corral and Willis, but we're going to be so bad next year too that we can afford to wait once again on a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 If Corral or Willis drop into the 20's, it may not cost too much to move up from the Rams pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) On 10/10/2021 at 4:18 PM, Motown Bombers said: I draft defense with the Lions pick and WR with the Rams pick. Doesn't really matter the position on defense. I agree with defense with the 1st pick especially with the way this particular draft is setting up, Thiibodeaux or Hamilton to be specific, but this seems like a good draft to get a potential QB steal in the late 1st if Willis or Corral drop to the Rams pick then you can take WR with the 2nd depending on how the board looks at the time. QBs with huge upside but also raw enough that they could slip into the 20s. Not to mention that there aren't many teams with QB needs after so many were taken last draft. I know that a lot of you don't like the idea of taking a QB high in the draft this season but the Lions are actually in a pretty good spot to take a flier on one now with their building strength on the offensive line and a good bridge QB in Goff to allow them to redshirt the rookie QB so if you have a chance to nab a potential franchise QB with the late 1st, you'd have a potential foundational piece on offense and defense in the 1st round alone with many more picks to build elsewhere. QB is THE most important position, better to jump on one sooner or later if you fall in love with the potential of one. This is the luxury that having that extra 1st affords them. Edited October 19, 2021 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, NYLion said: I agree with defense with the 1st pick especially with the way this particular draft is setting up, Thiibodeaux or Hamilton to be specific, but this seems like a good draft to get a potential QB steal in the late 1st if Willis or Corral drop to the Rams pick then you can take WR with the 2nd depending on how the board looks at the time. QBs with huge upside but also raw enough that they could slip into the 20s. Not to mention that there aren't many teams with QB needs after so many were taken last draft. I know that a lot of you don't like the idea of taking a QB high in the draft this season but the Lions are actually in a pretty good spot to take a flier on one now with their building strength on the offensive line and a good bridge QB in Goff to allow them to redshirt the rookie QB so if you have a chance to nab a potential franchise QB with the late 1st, you'd have a potential foundational piece on offense and defense in the 1st round alone with many more picks to build elsewhere. QB is THE most important position, better to jump on one sooner or later if you fall in love with the potential of one. This is the luxury that having that extra 1st affords them. but if you get the qb wrong, you're usually stuck for the next four years (ask the bears). unless you get it SO wrong, you're picking #1 again next year and have the balls yo admit you screwed up the last pick -which usually requires the last regime being fired first (ask the cardinals). i dont want to take a qb just to take one when this team has so many needs and the draft has some really good prospects at those positions of need (linebacker, cornerback, defensive end). and what they need almost as much as a qb is a big time receiver. i'd rather get a olave or a dotsun with the rams pick than chase a qb who is falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, buddha said: but if you get the qb wrong, you're usually stuck for the next four years (ask the bears). unless you get it SO wrong, you're picking #1 again next year and have the balls yo admit you screwed up the last pick -which usually requires the last regime being fired first (ask the cardinals). i dont want to take a qb just to take one when this team has so many needs and the draft has some really good prospects at those positions of need (linebacker, cornerback, defensive end). and what they need almost as much as a qb is a big time receiver. i'd rather get a olave or a dotsun with the rams pick than chase a qb who is falling. This is the thing, the Lions are at the point where they need franchise level players, they need playmakers. Sure there's a risk if the QB doesn't pan out, but the reward would be greater than taking any other position and with a pick in the 20s, is the risk really that high? If you can get a franchise defensive player and a franchise QB in 1 round, that's a homerun. Then there's a 2nd+ two 3rds to fill other needs. I don't disagree that QB isn't the biggest need currently but I sure as hell know that Goff isn't THAT guy to lead you to the promised land, not this broken version of Goff, but a legit dual threat QB with high upside COULD be THAT guy. The funny thing about this draft is that Willis and Corral have a similar skillset to two other QBs who weren't taken that long ago that were considered reaches at the time in Mahomes and Allen, interestingly enough that it was also a QB playing for a mid tier Big 5 conference team and the other from a small school. I just don't see a big risk in taking a shot at one of them later in the 1st round. Trading up like those teams did for Mahomes and Allen would be a much bigger risk. That's a different story altogether. There's also the matter of Green Bay possibly drafting right behind the Lions and blocking them from taking the next Favre/Rodgers. Edited October 19, 2021 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) Didn't Green Bay already roll the dice and take their next Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love? I can't imagine Green Bay wanting to keep Rodgers around and then go and waste another 1st round pick on a QB this year. Edited October 19, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhutch Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Cruzer1 said: There's no way the Lions would even look at him with everything that's hanging over him. The Lions just need to look at the draft right now. Right now, I would skip this year's QB bunch, and build up the defense and receiver corp. It's not a great year for receivers, but the Lions have extra picks. I like the 2023 QB class more than the 2022. I like the 2023 class better too, & I've been in that same camp of going D/WR early & often .. but watching Goff is killing me. I was a Goff fan - I thought he'd be "good enough" until we're contending, but he just has this deer in the headlights look about him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) Campbell is saying that receivers are not running the correct routes. Not sure I believe him but that would explain the severity of the struggles last game. Maybe Cephus was the last WR who actually ran the right routes. Edited October 19, 2021 by sagnam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 18 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Sure, it can happen, but a lot of things have to go right to get a top QB outside the top 5. I think the better question is whether in a year that the top performing BCS teams don't have a QB the gets the spotlight as a top choice, there isn't a still a top QB out there laboring with a team not good enough for his profile to rise to 'obvious'. Of course ironically that is the guy you are likely to get with a lower pick as well. Virtually every great qb in the league was drafted outside the top 5, from the old timers like Brady, Ben, Brees(yes I know he retired but fits the description), Rodgers and semi old timer Russel Wilson to young guys like Mahomes, Allen, Dak, Lamar and Watson. That doesn't even include this past year with Fields and Jones. History has shown time and time again that you don't need a top 3 pick to get a great qb, if you build the right situation for the QB before hand you can draft a guy that may have a flaw or two coming out of college and turn that guy into a franchise qb, particularly with the right coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: If Corral or Willis drop into the 20's, it may not cost too much to move up from the Rams pick. How about our 2nd round pick. Throw Carson Strong into that mix. Thibodeaux - WR - Willis in the 2nd... If he turns into better than a backup we can trade him for a couple 1sts and keep CJ Stroud (2023 draft) as our starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I think he's a guy that is going to shoot up the draft boards the closer we get to the draft but if he doesnt and he's still there in the 2nd Desmond Ridder is somebody Id be interested in. He has the tools, mobile, good size, strong arm can make all the throws but also has some flaws that makes him too big if risk to take with our first pick. That said his flaws are something that could potentially be corrected. He has the tendency to throw without much touch, instead firing fastballs when they're not needed. Stafford and others have had that problem and many are able to overcome it. Another issue is he often times forces things and tries to do too much. Again something that could potentially be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 20 hours ago, djhutch said: I like the 2023 class better too, & I've been in that same camp of going D/WR early & often .. but watching Goff is killing me. I was a Goff fan - I thought he'd be "good enough" until we're contending, but he just has this deer in the headlights look about him. Goff is playing without the best two players on offense, both offensive lineman. Plus they are breaking a rookie at LT who is struggling. His top 2 receivers are also out and what is left at the WR group is waiver wire fodder. Plus it's a new offense for him and a new offensive coordinator for the entire team. He appears to be a QB who just can not function if he doesn't have pieces around him. Goff is probably a career back up from here on out but this is a horrible situation for any QB. My main criticism of the off season was that they didn't bring in enough at WR to give Goff someone to throw to so they could properly evaluate him. Although most of the FO came from the Rams so they should have known what they were getting. If they have already given up on him then acquiring him has to be considered a mistake, given that there were other offers out there that didn't include taking on a QB with 100 million left on his contract. Plus they passed on Fields and Jones at 7. When teams don't have a QB they get desperate and the Lions will turn over as many leaves as it takes this off season to find one. Punting the QB situation another year to wait for a better draft seems about as much of a long shot as acquiring Watson. Especially since they will certainly expect to improve and not be one of the worst 2-3 teams in the league again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I’ve only watched parts of a couple of Pitt’s games. I’m intrigued by Kenny Pickett. In a year where the highly touted prospects seem suspect, a four year starter, fifth year senior could possibly be worth a late first round, second round pick? He seems to have the leadership skills and moxie that is currently missing in the incumbent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) Watching the Ga Tech, UVA game, #99 Keytaon Thompson WR is an absolute beast. Probably not an early round pick but he’s made some great catches tonight. UVa QB Brennan Armstrong should also get a look as a mid round possibility. Kid’s got moxie 350 yards passing, 99 rushing after 3 quarters. Yes, I realize it’s the ACC and Ga Tech, but the kid has heart. Edited October 24, 2021 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) I finally sat down and watch a Pitt game Saturday night and watched some Kenny Pickett highlights. I still don't know what to make of the guy as to whether or not he is a 1st round, much less a top 10, draft prospect. PFN: Kenny Pickett Scouting Report Edited October 25, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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