2023 Detroit Tigers Spring Training Thread

[chasfh]

31 minutes ago, MotorCityAlex said:

Should Tork start he season in AAA with the Mudhens until he put it together (unless he heats up this spring)?

Depends when the season starts. If it starts tomorrow, then yes.

[SoCalTiger]

I don’t know the back story regarding Tork but reading between the quotes in the news he seems reluctant to change his swing. Not sure that means he’s hard to coach. But assuming that could be partly true and   the  team has a lot riding on him I would let him “sink or swim” well into June. If he is still struggling then send him down and hopefully he will be more receptive to coaching. 

[Tenacious D]

where will he get the best coaching?  that's where I want him.

[gehringer_2]

Poor Torkelson. Made another 100mph out in his 1st AB. Kids is banking a lot of good karma for something later in his life.

[SoCalTiger]

2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

where will he get the best coaching?  that's where I want him.

Yes providing he is open to accepting it and maybe he is I have no facts either way on that.

[Tenacious D]

16 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Yes providing he is open to accepting it and maybe he is I have no facts either way on that.

well, if he's not open to coaching, it won't matter where he plays. I doubt that is the case, though--apparently he was calling around MLB this offseason asking for advice, including Mike Trout.  At least he's not stoopid.

[casimir]

54 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Poor Torkelson. Made another 100mph out in his 1st AB. Kids is banking a lot of good karma for something later in his life.

He followed it up with a walk and a double.  Not bad.

[bobrob2004]

I asked ChatGPT how well the Tigers will do this year.  This is the response:

Quote

 

The Detroit Tigers have made some moves in the offseason to improve their team, but it's difficult to predict with certainty how they will perform in the upcoming season. In the 2022 season, the Tigers finished with a record of 74-88, which put them in third place in the American League Central Division.

One area where the Tigers have shown promise is their pitching staff, with Casey Mize and Tarik Skubal leading the way. Additionally, the Tigers have added some veteran players to their roster, such as infielder Eduardo Escobar and catcher Tucker Barnhart, who could provide some leadership and experience to the team.

However, the Tigers also have some areas of concern, such as their offense, which ranked in the bottom half of the league in many statistical categories in the 2022 season. The Tigers will need their young hitters, such as Spencer Torkelson and Riley Greene, to step up and provide some consistent production at the plate.

Overall, the Tigers are still considered a young and developing team, and their success in the upcoming season will depend on how well their young players continue to develop and how well their pitching staff performs. While it's difficult to predict their exact performance, I would expect the Tigers to improve on their record from last year, but they may still face some challenges in a competitive AL Central division.

 

Note: The Tigers finished with a record of 66-96 in 2022 in 4th place.  The AI got confused.  The Tigers finished with a 77-85 record in 2021 in 3rd place.  I don't understand how they got 74-88.  Also, the Tigers never signed Eduardo Escobar and Barnhart is gone.  

[bobrob2004]

So, yeah, apparently ChatGPT thinks the Tigers signed Eduardo Escobar:

Quote

 

Eduardo Escobar is a professional baseball player who currently plays as an infielder for the Milwaukee Brewers. He was born on January 5, 1989, in Villa de Cura, Venezuela.

Escobar made his MLB debut in 2011 with the Chicago White Sox and has played for several teams throughout his career, including the Minnesota Twins, Arizona Diamondbacks, and now the Brewers. He is known for his versatility on the field, being able to play multiple positions, including third base, shortstop, and second base.

In the 2021 season, while playing for the Diamondbacks, Escobar had a breakout year, hitting 35 home runs and driving in 118 runs, while also batting .249 with an OPS of .778. He was named to the All-Star team for the first time in his career and was also a Silver Slugger award winner.

The Tigers signed Escobar as a free agent in the 2021 offseason, hoping that he can provide some offensive production and veteran leadership to their young team.

 

Note: Escobar hit 28 home runs with 90 RBI in 2021 while batting .253 batting average and an OPS of .786.  

[1984Echoes]

The Tigers must have heard Motown Forums complaints about their lack of offense as they are just going off today....

[Tenacious D]

Lipcius looking good in camp.  If Schoop underwhelms, would they cut him to create an opportunity for Andre?

[gehringer_2]

39 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Lipcius looking good in camp.  If Schoop underwhelms, would they cut him to create an opportunity for Andre?

How much value is there in keeping Schoop around in the last year of deal if he's not performing? This is something that has been enough to drive a sane person crazy with the Tigers - their attempts to hold guys to the deadline who they keep playing hoping for an uptick in trade value but who just underperform and kill whatever residual trade value they had by the time they are dealt for a bucket of balls. Moving off a Schoop in March/April if he doesn't find it in ST is just the kind of risk I don't mind if Harris wants to take.

Edited March 8, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

Lipcius is earning a spot.    I mean, we pretty much know who 11 of the 13 position players are, so a couple guys need to stand out to earn the last two spots.   His OBP numbers were really 

 

I have it at 14 now..........the last two seems, to me, between Kerry Carpenter, Andre Lipcius and Tyler Nevin.     Maybe Tork doesn't come north

Catchers (2)  
Eric Haase
Jake Rockin' Rogers

Infielders (6)
Spencer Torkelson
Tyler Nevin
Johnathan Schoop
Javy Baez
Nick Maton
Andre Lipcius

Outfielders (5)
Austin Meadows
Riley Greene
Matt Vierling
Akil Baddoo
Kerry Carpenter

Designated Retiree (1)
Miguel Cabrera 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Maybe Tork doesn't come north

 

except that the he's looked pretty hitterish in his last two outings. We'll see if it keeps up - he may yet put our fears to rest.

[Jim Cowan]

41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

How much value is there in keeping Schoop around in the last year of deal if he's not performing? This is something that has been enough to drive a sane person crazy with the Tigers - their attempts to hold guys to the deadline who they keep playing hoping for an uptick in trade value but who just underperform and kill whatever residual trade value they had by the time they are dealt for a bucket of balls. Moving off a Schoop in March/April if he doesn't find it in ST is just the kind of risk I don't mind if Harris wants to take.

I agree, I don't want to relive the idiocy of watching Grossman stink it up every night in July "to increase his trade value".  If Schoop is doing nothing useful by the end of May, and one of the new infielders is playing well either in Detroit or Toledo and could use the playing time, cut Schoop then.

[casimir]

55 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Lipcius is earning a spot.    I mean, we pretty much know who 11 of the 13 position players are, so a couple guys need to stand out to earn the last two spots.   His OBP numbers were really 

 

I have it at 14 now..........the last two seems, to me, between Kerry Carpenter, Andre Lipcius and Tyler Nevin.     Maybe Tork doesn't come north

Catchers (2)  
Eric Haase
Jake Rockin' Rogers

Infielders (6)
Spencer Torkelson
Tyler Nevin
Johnathan Schoop
Javy Baez
Nick Maton
Andre Lipcius

Outfielders (5)
Austin Meadows
Riley Greene
Matt Vierling
Akil Baddoo
Kerry Carpenter

Designated Retiree (1)
Miguel Cabrera 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the only position players assured of making the opening day roster (provided good health) are Haase, Baez, Greene, MeadowsA, and Cabrera.  I think these 5 are indisputable, maybe for different reasons than the others in the group.

I think Vierling likely makes the team as the main RHH OF and Maton as the main LHH IF.  I think Schoop likely makes the team also as he took his conditioning seriously and is a reasonable bounce back candidate.

I do think at least one of Baddoo/Carpenter make the team, and both could.  I think there’s even an outside chance that MeadowsP steals a roster spot and one or both of Baddoo/Carpenter start the season in Toledo.

I think Rogers still needs to prove he is in MLB baseball shape.  I think Haase is going to get some LF opportunities if Vierling is the only RHH OF and Rogers proves strong enough to make the roster.

None of this is to say that Torkelson/Nevin/Lipcius/other have nochance at making the roster.  They certainly could.  I just don’t think there are as many roster guarantees as you do right now.  I think there’s plenty of opportunities for guys to play themselves up or down.

[RatkoVarda]

pissing away 320 PAs on Grossman netted them Chris Anglin - the lesson being: just cut Schoop

[mtutiger]

12 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Lipcius is earning a spot.    I mean, we pretty much know who 11 of the 13 position players are, so a couple guys need to stand out to earn the last two spots.   His OBP numbers were really 

 

I have it at 14 now..........the last two seems, to me, between Kerry Carpenter, Andre Lipcius and Tyler Nevin.     Maybe Tork doesn't come north

Catchers (2)  
Eric Haase
Jake Rockin' Rogers

Infielders (6)
Spencer Torkelson
Tyler Nevin
Johnathan Schoop
Javy Baez
Nick Maton
Andre Lipcius

Outfielders (5)
Austin Meadows
Riley Greene
Matt Vierling
Akil Baddoo
Kerry Carpenter

Designated Retiree (1)
Miguel Cabrera 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that Lipcius is making a real case, but in all likelihood, swap out him for Cesar Hernandez (and probably Carp for Baddoo) and that's likely where this is heading.

[casimir]

12 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

pissing away 320 PAs on Grossman netted them Chris Anglin - the lesson being: just cut Schoop

I suspect this front office won't allow for 2023 Schoop to have 320 PAs at 2022 Grossman levels.  He either performs or he's gone. 

The obvious flip side to that is they could have just let Schoop loose over the offseason.  Its possible the front office sees a solve to his dismal 2022, and his BABIP was pretty unlucky.  To Schoop's credit, he showed up to camp in pretty good condition.  Maybe we'll see a turnaround.  If not, I think its unlikely he's around to the trade deadline.

[Motor City Sonics]

44 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I agree that Lipcius is making a real case, but in all likelihood, swap out him for Cesar Hernandez (and probably Carp for Baddoo) and that's likely where this is heading.

the last two years for Cesar, his OBP was .308 and .311..............that doesn't sound like the type of player Scott Harris is looking for - unless they feel that Andre doesn't get enough playing time up north and it's better to have him in Toledo, but the Tigers don't have the luxury of letting the better option marinate in the minors.  They can't start out 9-23 for a third straight year.......plus the way Hinch uses players,  Andre would get plenty of ABs right from the start.   They could go with Andre and Cesar and have Nevin in the minors too.     As mentioned here, if Schoop looks terrible, no reason to keep him around.   Andre's scorching the ball right now.  If he earns a trip up north it sets an example for other guys.

I disagree that there are only 5 who are automatics for the roster.   I would agree that there are 5 guaranteed to start almost every day (Greene, Meadows, Schoop, Baez and Cabrera).  The other 8 are mix-and-match and they'll all get playing time and all at multiple positions.   Miggy is just in the way.   It's frustrating.   They can't cut him because that would be a horrible look, but it would benefit the team.  Maybe there's a spark and he has a Pujols type of send off, but not likely.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Motor City Sonics

[mtutiger]

23 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

the last two years for Cesar, his OBP was .308 and .311..............that doesn't sound like the type of player Scott Harris is looking for....

A couple of things: Harris did bring him in, which implies that he was fine with his skillset or that he would be worth taking a flyer on. And in terms of controlling the strike zone (ie. taking walks, K's, plate discipline), he falls into the realm of what Harris is talking about. 

I don't think Cesar is a lock, he still has to show that he can hit enough (hence his low OBPs), but he's a better fit for Harris than you are giving credit for imo.

23 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

.... unless they feel that Andre doesn't get enough playing time up north and it's better to have him in Toledo, but the Tigers don't have the luxury of letting the better option marinate in the minors.  They can't start out 9-23 for a third straight year.......plus the way Hinch uses players,  Andre would get plenty of ABs right from the start.   They could go with Andre and Cesar and have Nevin in the minors too.     As mentioned here, if Schoop looks terrible, no reason to keep him around.   Andre's scorching the ball right now.  If he earns a trip up north it sets an example for other guys.

I probably agree more than I disagree, tbh.... I was kinda making the same argument for Parker Meadows in another thread recently (ie. why should one of Carpenter/Baddoo be a lock to make it if Meadows is outplaying them?).

But what I want and what Harris/AJ want are two different things, and there are practical realities involved as well that differentiate from the outfield comparison; Tyler Nevin, for instance, doesn't have options left and I believe he'd have to be DFA'd if he doesn't make the opening day roster (and would be a decent risk to be claimed). Depending on the contract Cesar Hernandez signed, it could be a Trayce Thompson/Chase Anderson situation where he can declare free agency after a set period of time if he's not on the major league roster. Schoop may be a bounce back candidate and will be given opportunities to show that.

Again, not saying what they should or shouldn't do IMO at this point, but just that they have a lot of things to consider in how to build this roster, and it's may be a little more complicated than "let's just stash Nevin or Hernandez away in AAA" when that may not be an option or may only be a temporary option.

Edited March 8, 2023 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

Having said all that, maybe Lipcius just got a little more runway....

 

[Motor City Sonics]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Having said all that, maybe Lipcius just got a little more runway....

 

"Baseball is a game of oblique angles and oblique injuries"   - Tim McCarver.   

[Motor City Sonics]

10 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

A couple of things: Harris did bring him in, which implies that he was fine with his skillset or that he would be worth taking a flyer on. And in terms of controlling the strike zone (ie. taking walks, K's, plate discipline), he falls into the realm of what Harris is talking about. 

I don't think Cesar is a lock, he still has to show that he can hit enough (hence his low OBPs), but he's a better fit for Harris than you are giving credit for imo.

I probably agree more than I disagree, tbh.... I was kinda making the same argument for Parker Meadows in another thread recently (ie. why should one of Carpenter/Baddoo be a lock to make it if Meadows is outplaying them?).

But what I want and what Harris/AJ want are two different things, and there are practical realities involved as well that differentiate from the outfield comparison; Tyler Nevin, for instance, doesn't have options left and I believe he'd have to be DFA'd if he doesn't make the opening day roster (and would be a decent risk to be claimed). Depending on the contract Cesar Hernandez signed, it could be a Trayce Thompson/Chase Anderson situation where he can declare free agency after a set period of time if he's not on the major league roster. Schoop may be a bounce back candidate and will be given opportunities to show that.

Again, not saying what they should or shouldn't do IMO at this point, but just that they have a lot of things to consider in how to build this roster, and it's may be a little more complicated than "let's just stash Nevin or Hernandez away in AAA" when that may not be an option or may only be a temporary option.

But honestly, losing Nevin or Cesar really doesn't move the needle much, does it?   Dime-A-Dozen guys.    Might be better to get a good long look at Kreidler or Andre to see what they have for the future,  unless they feel that would be overmatched in real game situations.      Nevin and Cesar feel more like seat-fillers.      Nevin's olbique injury certainly changes a few things.   Those can take awhile.  

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't think Cesar is a lock, he still has to show that he can hit enough (hence his low OBPs), but he's a better fit for Harris than you are giving credit for imo.

Hernandez is not part of the Tiger future. If they give him one AB that would be better to be given to anyone under 25 that is a total mistake. They don't have the luxury of giving 10 seconds of concern about the risk of losing CH. He should only play if in the end none of the youngs manage to put up any reasonable challenge.

Edited March 8, 2023 by gehringer_2