Motor City Sonics Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I've you are another GM in baseball........you let your executive assistant know that if Al Avila calls, you patch him through..........I don't care if I am in the middle of heart surgery...........you patch him through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Here is our big move! Hey, why not. Going to need more arms to throw at the injuries and innings limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, buddha said: how many chances does avila get to rebuild this team? it is amazing that anyone thinks avila deserves the shot to tear this down and rebuild it. i cant believe illitch would be that stupid. This rebuild is like an infinity pool. Keep swimming, get nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, casimir said: This rebuild is like an infinity pool. Keep swimming, get nowhere. I was thinking of the Soviet Union "Five Year Plans"... More like "Seven Year Plans" in this case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I think this is most like swimming upstream. You fight like hell, swim like hell... but the stream (injuries/ other teams/ etc.) are against you. And it sucks trying to swim upstream, and it takes forever, and it's dispiriting to have setbacks and/or to take forever trying to get upstream... But if salmon can get upstream, and spawn... then why can't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Just keep pushing upstream.... against the current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I think this is most like swimming upstream. You fight like hell, swim like hell... but the stream (injuries/ other teams/ etc.) are against you. And it sucks trying to swim upstream, and it takes forever, and it's dispiriting to have setbacks and/or to take forever trying to get upstream... But if salmon can get upstream, and spawn... then why can't we? it doesnt help that al avila doesnt know how to swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I think he knows how to swim. But he just started taking lessons a couple years ago. And still has some learnin' to do 'cause he ain't no Olympian. Yeah, that doesn't help either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cswood Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I think this is most like swimming upstream. You fight like hell, swim like hell... but the stream (injuries/ other teams/ etc.) are against you. And it sucks trying to swim upstream, and it takes forever, and it's dispiriting to have setbacks and/or to take forever trying to get upstream... But if salmon can get upstream, and spawn... then why can't we? because our salmon is fat and stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: I think he knows how to swim. But he just started taking lessons a couple years ago. And still has some learnin' to do 'cause he ain't no Olympian. Yeah, that doesn't help either... He is 63. I guess it's never too late to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 If you wonder why the gentle rustle of the river water seems to be getting louder, that's the waterfall you're rushing toward.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: If you wonder why the gentle rustle of the river water seems to be getting louder, that's the waterfall you're rushing toward.... Now I think Avila can jump up that small waterfall (as all or most salmon do...) and get to that special spawning place... But it seems most everyone else thinks Al is going backwards and is going to get washed over a different kind of falls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I'm as curious as the next guy regarding what the Tigers will do at the deadline, but my base assumption comes from the other direction than the Rosenthal story. "The rebuild is over, we aren't moving our young players for prospects..." I think that still applies in the minds of the Tiger front office. My guess is that for good or ill, they still believe in this team and are writing off this season's outcome as the confluence of a bunch of terrible luck and "wait till next year." That being the case I'm not going to be surprised if they don't do much. I'm actually not sure what you can do when there isn't a single player on the roster to 'sell high' on other than maybe Greene, or Carpenter and/or a reliever. So I tend to agree with the idea that the BP is where a move(s) may come. Plus Al has shown a propensity to trade relievers in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I really don't want to trade Skubal now, not only for the Al factor but because I just don't think his value right now is as high as it could be by this time next year or even the offseason if he pitches well the rest of the year. Of course he could go all Matt Boyd or get hurt in a month which would kill his value and in turn make people question why we didn't trade him but I think that's a risk Im willing to take cause right now I just think we'd get a so so return based on the small sample of success in the majors he has had thus far. Had a few great and even dominant stretches the past season and a half but they've been mixed with terrible stretches too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 If they move Skubal or a reliever it will be for major league ready position players. They are not doing a rebuild again. They are fielding an historically awful lineup right now with about 4-5 spots where they need help. And they don't have any top prospects knocking on the door. And they can't paper over the problems given how many positions need help. They realize they can't roll a very similar lineup out there next year and expect to compete. There should be a bunch of guys they counted on this year that don't return. Their core competency right now is developing pitching so it makes sense to use that to acquire a few position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Of course he could go all Matt Boyd or get hurt in a month which would kill his value and in turn make people question why we didn't trade him but I think that's a risk Im willing to take cause right now I just think we'd get a so so return based on the small sample of success in the majors he has had thus far. To that end, I honestly don't have much of a clue as to how other orgs view Skubal. Probably colored a bit by my skepticism to Avila, it seems almost likely to me that the Tigers would have a higher view of Skubal's talent than outside orgs would, which means they probably wouldn't get an offer worth making a trade. But that's pure speculation and others may disagree. 2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Had a few great and even dominant stretches the past season and a half but they've been mixed with terrible stretches too. As an aside, this broad and largely negative reaction to Rosenthal's article is amusing given some of the commentary after Skubal's rough stretch last month, where (iirc) the common reaction seemed to be that Skubal was turning back into a pumpkin. I tend to think he projects to be a front of rotation guy, but he's still young and a five game stretch of bad starts will happen to guys as they are developing. Edited July 27, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Stanley70 said: They realize they can't roll a very similar lineup out there next year and expect to compete. There should be a bunch of guys they counted on this year that don't return. Their core competency right now is developing pitching so it makes sense to use that to acquire a few position players. This definitely lines up with their draft strategy this year, where they abandoned their proclivity for starting pitching in favor of hit first college bats (Jung, Gold, Graham) in the earlier rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 It sure would help the offense next year if Meadows can return to his pre 2021 self. That along with improvements from Greene and God forbid Tork and the offense may end up looking a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: It sure would help the offense next year if Meadows can return to his pre 2021 self. That along with improvements from Greene and God forbid Tork and the offense may end up looking a little better. Admittedly was the one instigated the conversation about Candelario being a non-tender candidate, but the best case scenario would be for him to end the season strong and to justify another year. Not because he's the greatest player in the world, but because with all of their other position player deficiencies, they really can't afford to have to be in the market for a third baseman as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 A little snippet in todays Jeff Passan deadline article behind the ESPN paywall says: “Multiple GM’s Wednesday said they expect Skubal to move.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmitch55 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Skubal to the Padres for Hassell and Wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Timmitch55 said: Skubal to the Padres for Hassell and Wood. IF dealt (TSkubal), I would think/hope (as many would) they might lean more towards already (or very close) MLB bats. ex St L NGorman and say a SP MLiberatore and another lesser 'viewed' bat (maybe we add a RP?)... or LAD MVargas and/or APages, MBush, etc, type of deal... NO prospects that are in A ball. That really could be the beginning of another 'rebuild' in the eyes of many. Heck, if they need to add a prospect or two to any RP(s) dealt to get a closer 'bat' as well then they should seriously consider it (ex Workman, Kieth, Santana, Olson, or even Dingler). SDs LCampusano is very close to MLB ready... I have wondered often why we do not seem to develop any position players around here besides the very obvious 'draft picks' (Greene, and hopefully Tork). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, alex said: IF dealt (TSkubal), I would think/hope (as many would) they might lean more towards already (or very close) MLB bats. ex St L NGorman and say a SP MLiberatore and another lesser 'viewed' bat (maybe we add a RP?)... or LAD MVargas and/or APages, MBush, etc, type of deal... NO prospects that are in A ball. That really could be the beginning of another 'rebuild' in the eyes of many. If we are being honest with ourselves, Skubal being dealt at all, regardless if he were to warrant a Gorman or Pages level prospect, is gonna be seen as the beginning of another "rebuild" for the fanbase at large and will be a PR debacle. Even if there is merit to the idea of doing it in theory. The Jeff Weaver deal comes to mind.... not well recieved at the time, but it did help improve the Tigers in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, mtutiger said: If we are being honest with ourselves, Skubal being dealt at all, regardless if he were to warrant a Gorman or Pages level prospect, is gonna be seen as the beginning of another "rebuild" for the fanbase at large and will be a PR debacle. Even if there is merit to the idea of doing it in theory. The Jeff Weaver deal comes to mind.... not well recieved at the time, but it did help improve the Tigers in the long run. the thing is, trading Skubal at this point is probably pointless. Trades by nature start out as a zero sum proposition. The way they provide value is you either find a team in distress willing to overpay or you deal from an area of excess on your team to fill a gap. Starting with the 2nd first - there was point this season went it looked like the org did have excess starting pitching depth - but that is long gone now. Faedo, Manning, Mize, Wentz were all possibilities at one point who are questionable now and Turnbull's return to effectiveness is also open. So trading Skubal leaves as big a hole in the pitching as the position player that returns is going to fill, unless 2) you can rob a team in distress. But the truth is that in recent years teams have pretty much refused to play the 'all in for this run at the playoffs' game as much as they used to, plus by nature that is a scenario where the team that is willing to overpay - at least in theory, wants to do it in prospects since moving their established players runs counter to the aim of making a run. So there you are back to the rebuild paradigm. I tend to think they are stuck. Producing present tense net improvement in a very low value roster through trades is very hard unless you are dealing your own prospects a la DD. Al had the right idea 5 yrs ago - you rebuild through the draft supplemented by free agency. He was not wrong, he just hasn't executed. Pivoting to a strategy that probably won't work just to change things up isn't going to help that. Edited July 27, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 To give you an idea of what other fans are thinking with regards to a Skubal trade (I know this means nothing but this simulator does a good job of setting expectations for trades overall I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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