Trade Deadline

[Mr.TaterSalad]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

tater throwing a gm under the bus is like the first snowfall of the season: its an annual event that always happens no matter how much you wish it wouldnt.

i have heard scuttlebutt on young that he's a selfish player and just looks for sacks instead of following the plan.  that's sports radio talk so i have no idea if its true.  its possible the lions value a 3rd round pick more than the niners do.  

give what little knowledge i have on football and the fact that i know young's name and history, i probably would have made that trade.  but the lions might be looking for different things from their defensive ends (like assignment integrity) and thought young is too much of an injury risk.

or its possible they like the ends they have now.

Brad Holmes drafted a 300lb. defensive lineman with a bad back and a spinal problem. In fact, he had to be talked out of trading up for him, allegedly. He drafted a WR with a blown out ACL. Injuries can't be an excuse for Holmes to pass on Young.

You can still like Holmes and feel good about his regime and the direction of this franchise whilst criticizing individual things he does or doesn't do. I still like Holmes very much but feel disappointed by our inaction today. It feels like a very smartest guy in the room mentality.

The 49ers, Eagles, and Seahawks all made significant moves to get better. We kept the car in neutral and didn't. We are going to have to compete against and beat one or more of those teams in the playoffs in order to get to the Super Bowl. Given how weak the NFC is there is no reason we can't be a Super Bowl contending team this year. We should have made a move to reflect that imo.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[1984Echoes]

Holmes has built this team into a playoff-quality team. 

With talent. Everywhere.

All the other whining in here is meaningless.

[buddha]

27 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Brad Holmes drafted a 300lb. defensive lineman with a bad back and a spinal problem. In fact, he had to be talked out of trading up for him, allegedly. He drafted a WR with a blown out ACL. Injuries can't be an excuse for Holmes to pass on Young.

You can still like Holmes and feel good about his regime and the direction of this franchise whilst criticizing individual things he does or doesn't do. I still like Holmes very much but feel disappointed by our inaction today. It feels like a very smartest guy in the room mentality.

The 49ers, Eagles, and Seahawks all made significant moves to get better. We kept the car in neutral and didn't. We are going to have to compete against and beat one or more of those teams in the playoffs in order to get to the Super Bowl. Given how weak the NFC is there is no reason we can't be a Super Bowl contending team this year. We should have made a move to reflect that imo.

no gm is perfect.  holmes has made plenty of mistakes, but he has also built the lions into a winning team two years after being the worst team in the league.

you sound like TP.

[Cruzer1]

DPJ is a depth guy, a definite upgrade over MJJr.

[CMRivdogs]

51 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Brad Holmes drafted a 300lb. defensive lineman with a bad back and a spinal problem. In fact, he had to be talked out of trading up for him, allegedly. He drafted a WR with a blown out ACL. Injuries can't be an excuse for Holmes to pass on Young.

 

And neither one of them will cost us will either cost them $25 mil in cap space next year or be a half season rental. 

I really don't care. I can't see where either of the two Washington players did anything to improve the team the last 2 1/2 seasons. Same old DeadSkins

[Mr.TaterSalad]

49 minutes ago, buddha said:

no gm is perfect.  holmes has made plenty of mistakes, but he has also built the lions into a winning team two years after being the worst team in the league.

you sound like TP.

Since I have to reiterate it, let me say that I very much like what Holmes has done on the whole. I don't like the inactivity and lack of a move on defense today. Chase Young for a 3rd is an incredible steal, if he can stay healthy. Even if he can't, it's a 3rd round pick that we'd have given up. You yourself said you would have made that deal.

Do you at all worry that teams we might have to face in the playoffs like Philly, SanFran or Seattle got better today while we didn't? Do you worry that Seattle and Baltimore exposed our pass rush and that without an upgrade it could come back to hurt us in the playoffs? I have those worries and I don't think I'm alone.

[Sports_Freak]

28 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Since I have to reiterate it, let me say that I very much like what Holmes has done on the whole. I don't like the inactivity and lack of a move on defense today. Chase Young for a 3rd is an incredible steal, if he can stay healthy. Even if he can't, it's a 3rd round pick that we'd have given up. You yourself said you would have made that deal.

Do you at all worry that teams we might have to face in the playoffs like Philly, SanFran or Seattle got better today while we didn't? Do you worry that Seattle and Baltimore exposed our pass rush and that without an upgrade it could come back to hurt us in the playoffs? I have those worries and I don't think I'm alone.

I'll jump in. I really don't think the Lions are on par with Philly and SF. And Brad knows it. He's still building with draft picks and free agents. We should be a consistent winning football team for the next few seasons. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

39 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I'll jump in. I really don't think the Lions are on par with Philly and SF. And Brad knows it. He's still building with draft picks and free agents. We should be a consistent winning football team for the next few seasons. 

San Francisco is in a tailspin and lost 3 in a row. Their offense hasn't scored above 14 points in 3 weeks either and they have a QB whose play is sputtering. Goff is better than Purdy at this point. I did believe the 49ers were in a class above us, but not after losing 3 in a row and not with the way Purdy and their offense is playing as of late.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[holygoat]

I'm bummed they didn't get D-line help because I don't think the Lions are that far away from Philly or SF, and their schedule has them set up to compete for the 1 seed this season. The thing with Sweat or Chase is that, as rentals, the cost is cheaper than the pick you give up, because you can let them walk after the season and get a comp pick. So you're basically trading back in the draft for a half season and playoffs of Pro Bowl D-end help.

[buddha]

who is more valuable?

2nd round picks sam laporta and brian branch on rookie deals?  or montez sweat on a massive deal eating up a huge chunk of your salary cap?  

who is more valuable?

3rd round pick alim mcneil or chase young on a huge deal about to eat up a huge chunk of your salary cap?

i'm fine not selling the farm for a defensive end who is about to get very expensive or about to get injured.

brad holmes is trying to make the lions a sustainable good organization.  tater is trying to win the narrative for a week. 

[Jason_R]

They kept saying they didn’t want to disrupt the chemistry. They must like their DL rotation — which put more pressure on a QB last night than any team over the past five seasons, and which expects Houston to return before end of season. 

[Tigeraholic1]

Report: Commanders viewed new 49er Chase Young as ‘undisciplined'
 

"Young, according to several Commanders coaches and other organizational sources, was viewed as an undisciplined player who developed bad habits such as deviating from assignments in an effort to make splash plays," Silver wrote Tuesday. "His off-the-field priorities and commitment to his craft were often questioned, and he was viewed internally as a player who plateaued as a rookie."

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/report-chase-young-undisciplined-commanders/1667486/?amp=1

Edited November 1, 2023 by Tigeraholic1

[Mr.TaterSalad]

26 minutes ago, buddha said:

who is more valuable?

2nd round picks sam laporta and brian branch on rookie deals?  or montez sweat on a massive deal eating up a huge chunk of your salary cap?  

who is more valuable?

3rd round pick alim mcneil or chase young on a huge deal about to eat up a huge chunk of your salary cap?

i'm fine not selling the farm for a defensive end who is about to get very expensive or about to get injured.

brad holmes is trying to make the lions a sustainable good organization.  tater is trying to win the narrative for a week. 

I can play this game too. Whose more valuable Levi and Josh Paschal or Montez Sweat? Whose more valuable Iffy Melifonwu or Chase Young?

Also, if Alim is more valuable than Chase Young then presumably he has a good agent who will recognize that and negotiate a deal for him at or above whatever San Francisco ends up paying Young.

Howie Roseman is a better GM than Brad Holmes and he's made multiple Super Bowl appearances as a GM and he made moves. I doubt the future success of the Eagles will be jeopardized or compromised by the moves Roseman made over the last couple of days. Let's stop acting like trading one draft pick for an established player is going to derail the plan this front office has.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, holygoat said:

I'm bummed they didn't get D-line help because I don't think the Lions are that far away from Philly or SF, and their schedule has them set up to compete for the 1 seed this season. The thing with Sweat or Chase is that, as rentals, the cost is cheaper than the pick you give up, because you can let them walk after the season and get a comp pick. So you're basically trading back in the draft for a half season and playoffs of Pro Bowl D-end help.

This is  really the best argument for a swing at the fences right now instead of staying on 'the plan.' And it goes back to the same debate that goes on endlessly about team sports - how much to you value one championship vs long term competitiveness? Everybody has their own answer to that question. It could go either way with anyone. But the discussion has so far left out one important person. I can easily imagine that SHF, after so many decades of Lion futility, could think that bringing her team back to respectability as an upper echelon team over a long term is as important to her to prove her ownership credentials as any single Championship - ergo you stick with the plan that got you where you are. Or not. 😉 

But the decision to stand pat sort of speaks for itself.

Edited November 1, 2023 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

22 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I can play this game too. Whose more valuable Levi and Josh Paschal or Montez Sweat? Whose more valuable Iffy Melifonwu or Chase Young?

...

Wrong answers/ choices.

Correct answer:

Patrick Surtain II

[number20]

4 hours ago, Cruzer1 said:

DPJ is a depth guy, a definite upgrade over MJJr.

He's also an upgrade over Jamo right now

[Cruzer1]

15 minutes ago, number20 said:

He's also an upgrade over Jamo right now

I disagree. Jamo can catch the easy touchdowns.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Cruzer1

[number20]

9 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said:

I disagree. Jamo can catch the easy touchdowns.

I realize saying that about Jamo probably goes down like a sack of sh** to his fierce devotees, but...

...I'm talking about an upgrade as far as production. DPJ had over 800 yds and 61 receptions last year - with only two drops. He gives Goff another sure-handed, dependable receiver at the X. The guy will catch the ball.

I haven’t thrown in the towel on Jameson long term. Fingers/toes crossed he breaks out like Gibbs at some point, and when he does you'll hear me yelling from there. Yet somehow he's almost turned into a project at this point. It sounds ludicrous to say that about a 12th overall pick in the draft, but honestly... he's a first round receiver who's still learning to catch the ball and run routes.

For the moment, he just isn't producing

 

[buddha]

8 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I can play this game too. Whose more valuable Levi and Josh Paschal or Montez Sweat? Whose more valuable Iffy Melifonwu or Chase Young?

Also, if Alim is more valuable than Chase Young then presumably he has a good agent who will recognize that and negotiate a deal for him at or above whatever San Francisco ends up paying Young.

Howie Roseman is a better GM than Brad Holmes and he's made multiple Super Bowl appearances as a GM and he made moves. I doubt the future success of the Eagles will be jeopardized or compromised by the moves Roseman made over the last couple of days. Let's stop acting like trading one draft pick for an established player is going to derail the plan this front office has.

we'll see about the eagles future success.  theyre better than the lions right now on paper and howie is a good gm.  if i saw sam howell rip up my defense and jalen hurts limping on every other play, i'd probably have made moves too.  but the future?  we'll see.

like i said, holmes isnt perfect and i disagree with a lot of what he's done especially in taking gibbs and campbell last year.  but there's more to running a team than making a short term deal for an injury prone defensive end who has so far been a real disappointment like chase young.

ymmv.  if the lions lose in the playoffs i'm sure you'll be calling for holmes to be fired.

[RandyMarsh]

I can't remember but isnt CJGJ gonna be back by the end of the year? If so between him and Houston coming back along with the Lions just having a really young team Holmes may feel that the team really isn't a finished product right now and should be even better as the year goes on so there wasn't as much of a need to try to improve from the outside.

 

[KnoxP]

My speculation: 

Remaining schedule for us and others=strong odds we get 2 maybe even 1 seed. That alone increases our chance for a good playoff run w/current team. No need to give a higher pick for what was available. Future draft intact. Enter DPJ.

I understand this assumes all things keep happening as they have, which yes, is a gamble. Trading is also a gamble. 

[Longgone]

11 hours ago, holygoat said:

I'm bummed they didn't get D-line help because I don't think the Lions are that far away from Philly or SF, and their schedule has them set up to compete for the 1 seed this season. The thing with Sweat or Chase is that, as rentals, the cost is cheaper than the pick you give up, because you can let them walk after the season and get a comp pick. So you're basically trading back in the draft for a half season and playoffs of Pro Bowl D-end help.

You only get a comp pick if you don’t sign anyone else decent and I believe they plan on signing free agents, and i think the depth on the dline is fine, but if Jacobs or Sutton goes down, they are in trouble.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Longgone

[Cruzer1]

Mike Renner has his own channel now, I recommend it.

He thinks the Lions traded for DPJ for his blocking. Also, Green is a pretty good blocker, and has good speed. The DPJ talk is at the 22:00 minute mark.

 

[Sports_Freak]

12 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

San Francisco is in a tailspin and lost 3 in a row. Their offense hasn't scored above 14 points in 3 weeks either and they have a QB whose play is sputtering. Goff is better than Purdy at this point. I did believe the 49ers were in a class above us, but not after losing 3 in a row and not with the way Purdy and their offense is playing as of late.

We'll have to see how they play once the playoffs start. Those games are when the best teams play really good. I still say it will be SF at Philly in the NFC Championship game.

[NYLion]

15 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Brad Holmes drafted a 300lb. defensive lineman with a bad back and a spinal problem. In fact, he had to be talked out of trading up for him, allegedly. He drafted a WR with a blown out ACL. Injuries can't be an excuse for Holmes to pass on Young.

You can still like Holmes and feel good about his regime and the direction of this franchise whilst criticizing individual things he does or doesn't do. I still like Holmes very much but feel disappointed by our inaction today. It feels like a very smartest guy in the room mentality.

The 49ers, Eagles, and Seahawks all made significant moves to get better. We kept the car in neutral and didn't. We are going to have to compete against and beat one or more of those teams in the playoffs in order to get to the Super Bowl. Given how weak the NFC is there is no reason we can't be a Super Bowl contending team this year. We should have made a move to reflect that imo.

He likely passed on Young because he didn't fit the culture requirement. Young is from that Carter school of lazy tendencies so I doubt he was even a consideration for Holmes/Campbell.

Personally, I think they need to look outside their bubble sometimes and take on talent even if they aren't the best personality fit and work with the player to get the most out of him. I know that sacks isn't the end all be all but Young would be the Lions leading sack getter, a 3rd rounder would have been a small price to pay for talent like that. Maybe they are banking on Houston coming back but there's no guarantee that he gets up to speed coming off the injury.

Edited November 1, 2023 by NYLion