2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[Fox Wismic]

48 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I AM saying that Correa has been a much better offensive player than Baez.  There's simply no question about that.

Better plate discipline, but they are comparable in every other area. CC is not nearly with twice the money for twice the length - especially considering his injury history, which probably won't improve as he gets older.

[Jim Cowan]

8 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

Last three seasons (minus covid outlier):

HRs:  JB-94 CC-62 Edge: Baez
AVG: JB-279 CC-266 Edge: Baez
RBIs: JB-283 CC-216 Edge: Baez
Runs: JB-270 CC-206 Edge: Baez
SB: JB-50 CC-4 Edge: Baez
Slug: JB-526 CC-486 Edge: Baez
OPS: JB-847 CC-835 Edge: wash

 

You are relying heavily on counting stats there, which merely reflect that Correa missed a lot of playing time in 2018 and 2019.  Your table says that Baez has been more durable, which is what everybody says.  I don't understand why you would leave out walks and OBP.

[Jim Cowan]

4 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

Better plate discipline, but they are comparable in every other area. CC is not nearly with twice the money for twice the length - especially considering his injury history, which probably won't improve as he gets older.

I don't think anybody here ever said that Correa was worth twice the money, so I don't know where that is coming from.

[Fox Wismic]

6 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Your table says that Baez has been more durable

So you're going to defend CC by pointing out that Javy has been more durable? Ooookayy.

[Fox Wismic]

5 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I don't think anybody here ever said that Correa was worth twice the money

If anyone would've preferred signing Carlos at his rate over Javy at his, that's what they're saying.

[Fox Wismic]

9 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I don't understand why you would leave out walks and OBP.

I acknowledged CC has better plate discipline.

[Jim Cowan]

2 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said:

So you're going to defend CC by pointing out that Javy has been more durable? Ooookayy.

No one here is defending CC.  They are speculating about whether or not he will get Lindor money, from a team other than the Tigers.  Did Correa have supporters here at the start of the process?  Of course.  Is anyone complaining now about signing Baez, wishing they could have Correa?  Not one person.

[Tiger337]

Baez's average annual salary is 23 million.  I doubt Correa will make 46 million.  He'll probably make between 30-35 million and he'll be worth it if he stays healthy.  He'll get more years because he is younger.  Ten years is a lot though.  I am happy with Baez.  

Edited December 29, 2021 by Tiger337

[Tigermojo]

I'm very happy with Baez. I think his overall game will fit well with this team. Durability is important and Baez has been durable. I would have been happy with Correa as well, maybe not as happy five years from now when Correa has five years left and Baez has one.

Someone will pay Correa what he wants. They will market him as a star player and make plenty of money compared to what his contract will cost. The difference between the two is payroll flexibility. The Tigers can potentially add another player.

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, Fox Wismic said:

Better plate discipline, but they are comparable in every other area. CC is not nearly with twice the money for twice the length - especially considering his injury history, which probably won't improve as he gets older.

Twice as many BB and 2/3rds the Ks is not merely better plate discipline, its literally the difference between HoF level hitting and being a little better than average.

Put another way, if two pitchers had similar hits + EBH, but one (Baez) allowed twice as many walks and had an average WHIP, whereas the other guy (Correa) had an elite WHIP, and struck out 50% more batters, nobody would say that they are about the same.

[Tenacious D]

I think there is some revisionist thinking going on.  No one can dispute that Correa is the more complete player than Baez.  However, when you factor in Javy’s contract relative to what Correa is reporting to be seeking, they certainly look a bit more comparable from a value perspective, with Baez getting the edge.

All things equals (which they aren’t) Correa >>> Baez

[chasfh]

As frustrating as he can be for stretches at a time, I think we’ll be very happy with Javy overall. At his best he is as productive as any big leaguer, and he is a joy to watch playing ball.

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

The Tigers can potentially add another player.

Has Maybin signed yet?

[buddha]

59 minutes ago, chasfh said:

As frustrating as he can be for stretches at a time, I think we’ll be very happy with Javy overall. At his best he is as productive as any big leaguer, and he is a joy to watch playing ball.

the people that liked the baez signing will be crowing when he gets hot for two weeks.

the people that didnt like it will be crowing when he looks completely lost for two weeks and swings at everything.

same as always.  lol.

[Ancient Fan]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:07 AM, chasfh said:

If the established prevailing value estimate of an asset is 12 million, and your opening bid is 50,000, you’ll be summarily dismissed as an unserious bidder and you will probably never get the ear of the seller again. Only in extreme distressed situations could you hope to purchase such a valuable asset for pennies on the dollar.

The key is who establishes the "prevailing value estimate".

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

the people that liked the baez signing will be crowing when he gets hot for two weeks.

the people that didnt like it will be crowing when he looks completely lost for two weeks and swings at everything.

same as always.  lol.

then he and Schoop will be great pair together as long as we can keep them in sync (or out, depeneding how you look at it) so at least one is hitting at a time. 🙄

Edited December 29, 2021 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said:

The key is who establishes the "prevailing value estimate".

Reasonable consensus that people agree to, basically.

It was a reasonable consensus that Correa would get 10/320.

[Ancient Fan]

18 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Reasonable consensus that people agree to, basically.

It was a reasonable consensus that Correa would get 10/320.

As long as there is at least one person that thinks it is "reasonable", he will get what he is asking.

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said:

As long as there is at least one person that thinks it is "reasonable", he will get what he is asking.

Of course, the market could fall down for him, too, even though the market was much better than expected for the guys just below him in the free agent rankings. Probably won't know until at least mid-February.

[Ancient Fan]

The CBA promises to be a very interesting topic in the coming months. It may turn the negotiations upside down in the future...if there is a future in baseball.

[Tenacious D]

Baseball is in a precarious place—their fervent fan base are old guys.  However, they could address that with the Tatis’, Vladdy Jr and Ohtani’s and dingers followed by bat flips to try and appeal to a younger audience.

A work stoppage would be potentially damaging to growing (and maintaining) interest.  We’ll see how how dumb both sides are.

 

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

Baseball is in a precarious place—their fervent fan base are old guys.  However, they could address that with the Tatis’, Vladdy Jr and Ohtani’s and dingers followed by bat flips to try and appeal to a younger audience.

A work stoppage would be potentially damaging to growing (and maintaining) interest.  We’ll see how how dumb both sides are.

 

Baseball has always appealed to older audiences.  It's not an exciting sport for young people to watch.  I think the future of the game is gambling.  

[chasfh]

Baseball doesn’t care how the game generates more revenue. They care only that it does. And they’ve figured out that the way to do that is not by introducing the game to young people who might come to love it—that’s a fool’s errand given today’s slow game—but by pandering to the people who want only to make a few bucks off bets. I think that’s a little sad, but that’s the way the world is going, I guess. I hope I die before baseball games become routinely fixed to satisfy Big Gambling. 

[RandyMarsh]

I'm not a big gambler so I really don't know but the guys on the radio who do gamble brought up the point that baseball isn't even fun for gambling. Like for starters as we know it's so volatile so it's hard to bet on and the side bets aren't as exciting as other sports.  

[1776]

We were looking seriously at a spring training trip this year. There are four home games in five days at the end of the schedule which is a rare plus. Tickets go on sale next Saturday. As it stands now we’re probably not going to buy tickets with so much undecided regarding an agreement at this point. If they don’t start on time the whole thing blows up as far as planning goes.