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You don't need to create a new thread every time a thought enters your mind. There are so many threads now, I can never find the thread with the topic I am looking for. I would appreciate an update on the Tigers record when Reyes starts though.

Seems to me the guy that was expected to sign for the largest contract and ended up being the last one to sign for the least money is the one who misread the market.

i think the major difference was dombrowski's ability to turn water into wine, and Al's ability to turn wine into Jose King and Franklin Perez.

I honestly feel the Tigers should have asked Dan Campbell to hold the clubhouse meeting.

In the grand scheme of things, the Baez contract is not the biggest issue with Avila. It's all player development before 2021(before the overhaul). They claimed that a development machine was being built to produce young players that could seamlessly come in and contribute to the major league club. But all they did was tank and try to get high draft picks. From 2018-2021, I said that the biggest games in the organization were in the minors. We would see if they could produce players outisde of the top 10 draft picks. They didn't and we are stuck with the Castros, Reyes, and overcooked players like Grossman and Schoop as a core of a major league team. They clearly need more time to develop players. I don't want Al steering that ship and trying to extract value out of this terrible roster.

I am getting really tired of all of our Detroit sports teams sucking forever. Its been a long time since we could expect or reasonably hope for one or (forbid!) two of our teams to be a contender.

The fact that we need Harold in our lineup every day is the biggest indictment of this season.

cause Al Avila sucks at his job.

because the tigers could have waited and then signed him to a similar deal the twins got him for, in theory. the twins needed a ss too (although unlike us, they have prospects at the position), and instead of paying baez they bided their time and ended up with a much better player on a much more palatable deal. Al got turned down by correa (we believe) and then paid baez on a long term deal. Al has a long history of not reading the market (jd martinez trade, verlander trade, failing to deal boyd) so i'm putting my eggs in the "Al misread things again" basket.

And that draft netted Avila and Dirks. By most measures it was a successful draft just by virtue of those two players, even with Dirks' career ending quickly, add without considering the Tigers got 100+ appearances of effective relief work from Perry in 2009-2010. It just illustrates the point that it only takes 1-2 solid players to make a draft successful, the rest is noise.

so ivey is smarter than we may have thought.

Okudah may be considered a bust now, but if he stays healthy this year I think he'll surprise some people. It's a different scheme than when he was a rookie & will not require of him what Patricia did. Add to that what we expect will be an improved pass rush & he may surprise some people.

Let's be honest. He'll be injured by then.

I agree rehab has become a crutch for inaction. A 25 yr old doesn't lose his ability to bat in a week.

Sounds like he wants to be brought in to the hearings... Come on down Donnie!

You would have to be born after 2000 to think this. Todays democrats are nothing like democrats of the past generations. Current dems are the most anti-American fascists ever. Yes, there are some far right crazies in the Republican party but a lot more far left wack jobs in the democrat party. Up until around 1990 Dems and Republicans had the same goals and that was to better the USA. They just had different ways of obtaining it. Today's democrats are more about what they can do for people in other countries, how they can support criminals and crazies and tear down the USA. Biden and his comrades have not done one single thing to help the American people. He goes down as the biggest failure as POTUS ever!

So your argument actually is that the Dems are so extreme left that they didn't pass the extreme left legislation?

well, 'Hell", "Twins" and "10/350" might go together in a true sentence, but it would be more likely to be : Hell will freeze over before the Twins give 10/350 to anybody."

That probably part of the plan. They want to privatize schools and turn education into a for-profit, cottage industry. Once they do that, they will deregulate all education standards and credentialing required for being a teacher. The skills and preparation it takes to be a high quality, good educator of young minds means little to a lot of people on the far right. If you teach the bible, creationism, biblical literalism, the Earth being only 7,000 years old, anti-abortion education, that being gay is a mortal sin, that the Civil War was caused by northern aggression, that there are differences between the races, we aren't all equal, gun ownership is a necessity and immigrants are poisoning our society, the right would have no problem with any of that. All of the certifications and requirements for becoming a teacher are unnecessary burdens and red tape. Furthermore, they would tell us that we need to stop all the grooming and liberal indoctrination that modern day teachers do. When they went to school a teacher could take their belt or the back of their hand to you. You bent down and prayed apparently at the start of every day and you said the words "Under God" in the pledge extra loud or something.

My question would be, why was Avila bidding at all, when it was well understood that Correa was never going to take an offer 65 million below his asking price, and in November to boot? What was he trying to accomplish? If Avila was trying to accomplish a signing of Correa, then you’re right, he completely misunderstands the free agent market. Because who among those who know what they’re doing would honestly believe that lowballing the top guy on the market by 20% months before a soft signing deadline would get that job done?

I don't disagree that there are plenty of nutty, crazy people on the left. A day on twitter will show you that. The 9/11 truther movement originally took hold among left-wing minded individuals back in the day. There have been various other crazy ideas and conspiracy theories that people on the left have adopted from the CIA to vaccines to things corporations do. There have also been people on the left pushing ideas, like abolishing ICE and defunding entire police departments, that currently sit outside the American mainstream of ideas. All that said, it is an incredibly small minority of people on the left pushing those things. Generally, even among some of the less well educated or more radical individuals on the left, the average progressive/leftist/democratic socialist/social democrat just wants a government that supports people and takes care of a bunch of core, basic needs in life. Healthcare, child welfare, nutritious food, clean water, housing quality public education, reliable transpiration, a healthy planet, a clean environment, taking care of wildlife, etc. are all seen as basic human rights. The average person on the left isn't building a political movement centered around lazy people on welfare, CRT, gun ownership with no restrictions, gays grooming people, bootstrapping your way through life, or creating a survival of the fittest society. Sure, the party of centrists and third way Democrats like Joe Biden, Tip O'Neill, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Joe Liberman, John Kerry, Barack Obama is slowly being replaced by Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Jamal Bowan, John Fetterman, and on. But it isn't being replaced that way all at once. In-fact, there are some on the left who do indeed complain that the transformation of the party into a solidly progressive one moves too slow. But in general, the way they are trying to transform the party and the source of their frustration is built around not helping people enough. Whereas with Republicans and people on the right who are transforming their party, the source of their frustration is racial grievance, intolerance, and a wanting for someone to feel as miserable in life as they do. Misery and hatred love company, and they are finding a home on the right wing of America. Rational Republicans are fewer and fewer these days. The party of educated, thoughtful, sophisticated conservatism of the likes of George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, Jack Kemp, Gerald Ford, John Boehner, George Will is being replaced by a radical, less educated element with Donald Trump, MTG, Lauren Bobert, Louie Gohmert, Matt Gaetz, Steve Bannon, and Tucker Carlson. How many people on the right do you hear standing up to people like Herschel Walker who are out there denying evolution or Ben Carson who says the Pyramids of Egypt were grain silos built by Joseph or Donald Trump who says climate change is a Chinese hoax or immigrant caravans from the likes of Tucker Carlson. Pick out anyone of these idiots and chances are they'll be talking about grooming, CRT, gay people, an immigrant invasion of America, guns, non-existent voter fraud, etc. The American right has become far more radicalized than the American left. Furthemore, the intentions of the average person on the American left is much more altruistic, caring, kind, and virtuous towards the plight of others than it is on the American right.

I still find it a bit suspicious that Correa wouldn't take a bit less money to play for his former manager again, especially after that lunch meeting that they had. Seems like Correa has a big ego. And why is everyone so confident that Correa would have the same numbers in Detroit as he does with Minnesota considering the criticisms of Scott Coolbaugh? For all we know, Correa wouldn't be hitting any better than Baez is hitting if the Tigers would have signed him.

Critics to the far left will find some person on a video on the internet with a face full of piercings, one side of their head shaved bald, the other side green, tats all over their face, who claims to be in a relationship with their plants and say "this is the left that's running our schools and wants to turn our kids gay". Critics to the far right will point to members of congress, governors, attorneys general, school board members and can point to actual policy proposals. But they're the same threat.

I had one Harley with obnoxiously loud pipes. The thing is with those is they don't have to be obnoxiously loud if a rider knows how to control the throttle. I often scoff at the "loud pipes save lives" slogan but it is true in some cases as it does allow awareness of a biker. However the counter to this is a LED headlight and driving with the brights on during the day. That actually creates more awareness. Sure it can be visibly annoying temporarily but it is far less annoying than the loud pipes and the first step in defensive riding is visibility. In summary, yes people who get a thrill out of driving down the road or sitting at an intersection repeatedly "expressing their manhood" are douchebags. Their brothers in arms are the "rolling coal" and truck nuts contingency.

4 kids? Lol what horrific news for Biden!!!

They wanted him but not at Lindor money, that's crazy, he doesn't play often enough.

I hate that some of you have put me in the position to defend Avila, but I think most here gave him pretty high marks for this past offseason, including myself. All of the players he acquired through trades and free agency had a track record, including pretty good seasons in 2021. There was reason to be optimistic around our 3 young starters, who had shown promise last year. ERod’s signing was hailed by national writers as one of the best of the offseason (prior to the shutdown). Two things have happened to put the team in their current despair. The first is an unusual number of injuries to players we had counted on to significantly contribute. The second, which is inexplicable to me, is all of our hitters struggling for an extended period of time with no signs of improvement. Austin Meadows and Robbie Grossman do not have a HR between them in over 280 AB’s—they each hit over 20 last year. Is this the front office’s fault? it would be very easy to blame Avila for this, but I also think it would be wrong. I don’t see what firing him at this point will accomplish, except to appease fans who want blood. signed, Mrs. Avila

If Torkelson is sent to Toledo, I hope they leave Schoop at second base. His defense at second base has been one of the few bright spots.

No. Grant is better. Wood is one of those fan favorites that isn't actually very good. I wouldn't expect #7 in return for Grant but he's certainly better than Wood, as more of a 2 way guy that teams tend to covet.

How did Avila lowball him when he offered him more money than any other team? Also, Avila didn't offer him that money, Illitch did. Avila would offer Baez as much as Illitch was willing to pay him. It seems more logical considering all the other SS signed for market value except Correa that Correa overplayed his hand.

I am just pointing out that owners and front offices might respect people in the game for different reasons than fans might.

I can’t do it. I have no reason to dislike Tampa Bay besides their success. Colorado’s GM alone is a reason to dislike them.

Jeff Luhnow is still available. If you were fine with Hinch, you should be fine with Luhnow. I say fire Avila and hire Luhnow.

It's never a good time to panic. When you're under duress, and in a panic, you fuck up. IIRC, I had this EXACT same conversation last year on this board (err, the old board) when the team started out of the gate and fell flat on its face. The exact same panic comments: "Fire Avila!", "Fire Hinch", "FIRE THEM ALL!!!", "Avila sucks, he's the worst, get rid of him!!!", "This year is WORSE than 2004!!!", etc., etc., etc... The EXACT same stream of comments. I stated unequivocally last year to DON'T panic, it will get better. And I am saying the same right now. Don't panic. The team sucks. We're under duress... so lets lash out and burn everything to the ground... Not. Players will get back from injuries. Hinch delivered his tongue lashing and I predict that starting tomorrow (or maybe later, we'll see with this team...) the team starts playing/ hitting better. All the angst over drafting RHP's, while historically correct, does not guarantee future repeat results. Greene and Tork will play much, much better. If not this year, then next. Baez will play much, much better, if not this year, then next. Not to be the steady, reliable emotional touchstone here but (and Lee is correct, I'm not exactly the best guy to do that...), for right now, as much as everyone will absolutely hate this: I believe it's best to stay the course and ride this shit storm out. The sun always comes back out to shine, even after a Cat 5 hurricane.

What has Hinch done outside of Houston, who continues to be a contender without him, that would make teams fall over themselves to hire him?

I’ve come to think that DD started poking around for jobs and Ilitch does not tolerate disloyalty. Fedorov signing that offer sheet with Carolina ensured his number will never go to the rafters. Sparky bailed on the lockout refusing replacement players so they waited until he died.

See what you missed? I wonder, was the Clemens family at the game? That could have been the topic of conversation for the TV crew. Probably into the next series, too.

I don't think there's any way Hinch will leave after this season because (1) I think there might be a succession plan in place in which Hinch eventually gets the GM chair, which is something he's been on record throughout his career as being a goal of his; and (2) if he leaves after managing the team to 100 losses and literally one of the worst offense in baseball history, who's going to be falling all over themselves to put him in the manager's chair somewhere else?

OTOH, he certainly does score high enough that the Tigers should not be where they are. IIRC the Tigers ponied up the 3rd most off-season money in the majors, they've hired a top line manager, they've spent freely on equipment and technology through their system. I haven't got a clue what's in the water in the Tiger clubhouse that's turned all the bats to noodles, but it's not for lack of an owner willing to provide at least reasonable resourcing. That's a much easier argument to make than to support objectively. I'd certainly entertain arguments about whether or not it's sufficient to win a WS, but not that it's not sufficient to put a respectable team on the field. I don't find arguments attempting to draw inferences between the Sports teams and City of Detroit development persuasive. Hard to imagine two more different worlds. I don't have any particular affinity for Chris Ilitch but when a team under-performs the projections made by every unbiased statistical forecasting service, laying that at the owner's door seems illogical.

I am where I was 2 months ago. Don't take Chet. Don't take Ivey.

It's a player's only meeting. Hopefully Tarik Skubal is tearing everyone a new one.

There is one undeniably great thing going on right now........................This board lets us fucking swear. If ever there was a year to need that..................

Nice to hear that he actually participated in a competitive workout. Right now I'm assuming we're going to draft Murray. I like the kid and I'll be happy to root for him. Great character and I'm sure he'll be a solid player. But... I can't help but feel like he's the kind of player you can get in free agency or in the middle of the first round (like Bey). Meanwhile, if one of the others hit their ceiling (Ivey, Sharpe, and even Mathurin) you aren't signing that kind of player in free agency because that's an All-Star. For me, that's why I'd prefer one of them. You only get so many shots at All-Stars and even less if you're in a market like Detroit. You can get "solid" players anytime down the road through trades or free agency. Either way, I really just want to see the Pistons do more than just make their pick and go home. There's been so much talk about trading Grant for another pick and Weaver making sure his "clip is always empty" that if we walk away with just Murray and some nobody at pick #47 I'm going to feel like the clip definitely was not emptied.

i thought he should have been fired after the jd martinez trade.

Roger Clemens had 0 home runs and a .261 OBP in his first 26 PA. His son, Kody Clemens, has 0 home runs and a .160 OBP in his first 25 PA.

Seems to me, this overall is low on the scale of reasons why he would be a bad choice.

AOC is a stunning woman. She bewitches.

Al Avila joined this team as 2nd in command for player personnel in 2003, he became GM in 2015. So for 20 years he has been at or just next to the top and even before he was GM, he was in charge of scouting and his voice was the loudest in the room when it comes to drafting. I went back to the 2004 draft and looked at position players the Tigers have drafted that has made it to the majors. (I am not counting DJ LeMahieu, who they drafted in the 41st round, didn't sign and then was drafted 2 years later in the 2nd round by the Cubs). This is 20 fucking years. Are you ready for this? Outfielders Brennan Boesch Nick Castellanos Tyler Collins Andy Dirks Daniel Fields Jeff Frazier Mike Gerber Derek Hill Matt Joyce Cameron Maybin Jake Robson Cristin Stewart Steve Susdorf Clete Thomas Casper Wells Infielders David Adams Kody Clemens Brian Dlugach Jeff Larish Scott Sizemore Devin Travis Danny Worth Catchers Alex Avila Curt Casali Grayson Greiner Bryan Holaday James McCann Chris Robinson So, for 20 years of being at the top and being largely responsible for the draft, your starting lineup/roster would be c - Alex Avila 1b - Jeff Larish 2b - Devin Travis SS - Dany Worth 3b - Scott Sizemore rf - Nick Castellanos cf - Cameron Maybin lf - Matt Joyce DH - James McCann Bench Cristin Stewart, Brennan Boesch, Brian Dlugach, Kody Clemens Oh my GOD, how is he allowed to continue his job? That's 20 years and the only respectable position players are Alex Avila, James McCann, Nick Castellanos, Devin Travis & Cameron Maybin. That's it. It's so bad, it's just sooooo bad. So when you see that my call is to fire everyone, I mean everyone. AJ too. Total clean sweep is needed. EVERYONE !

they may also trade for a ready made qb rarher than draft one and hope he works out.