Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[MichiganCardinal]

With little exception, the majority of Americans over the last 30 years have believed in stricter gun laws. Yet the legislature has consistently sided with the minority. Weird.

[mtutiger]

11 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

To penalize the many for the few argument as reason to forestall legal change doesn't actually hold though because that is exactly what is done every where in society. Some people drive safely enough that the marginal value of a seat belt is small. Society decided their being 'penalized' was a sufficient price to pay. You find a thousand similar cases - some people could keep opiates in their medicine cabinets and use them responsibly - no dice on that either. So as a general complaint - complain away should such laws be passed, but as a precedent to prevent the law from acting anyway (should the majority ever actually find it's political will) it's a losing arg.

Also, the car insurance rates of even the safest drivers are influenced by the idiots as well.

[CMRivdogs]

[romad1]

Crumbley's parents are really trying to make us sympathize with their murderer kid

[Tigeraholic1]

Today is the 9th anniversary of the Sandy Hook massacre. I am a gun owner but if laws were passed  that prevented these tragedies from happening I would turn them all in. These kids are the same age as my daughter. I still struggle to look at her and not see those kids.

 

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

Nine long years of embarrassing inaction. It should be shocking how little their murders mattered.

[Motown Bombers]

6 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

Nine long years of embarrassing inaction. It should be shocking how little their murders mattered.

Not only that, a sizeable group of people tried to say it was a hoax and never happened. 

[oblong]

"Had Mr. Fieger been less concerned about being on the news and more concerned about the facts, he would have been able to easily confirm that Mr. Moore had not even worked in the high school for more than one year," 

[buddha]

38 minutes ago, oblong said:

"Had Mr. Fieger been less concerned about being on the news and more concerned about the facts, he would have been able to easily confirm that Mr. Moore had not even worked in the high school for more than one year," 

i saw fieger once in court.  he was walking in the hallway in a purple suit with sunglasses on surrounded by about five young lawyers trailing in his wake and basking in the glow of his slimy smug satisfaction.

juries like him though.  he gets the biggest verdicts in michigan (most of which are reduced substantially on appeal).

him getting the democratic nomination foe governor in michigan has to be the lowest point in democratic politics since the state voted for george wallace.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Today is the 9th anniversary of the Sandy Hook massacre. I am a gun owner but if laws were passed  that prevented these tragedies from happening I would turn them all in. These kids are the same age as my daughter. I still struggle to look at her and not see those kids.

 

as a gun owner, what law could be passed that would have absolutely prevented sandy hook other than outright prohibition on guns?  

[Tigeraholic1]

Just now, buddha said:

as a gun owner, what law could be passed that would have absolutely prevented sandy hook other than outright prohibition on guns?  

Anything semi-auto ban

[gehringer_2]

46 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Anything semi-auto ban

yeah - to me this seems so clear. The threat of a single bullet is generally sufficient for self defense, and single shot weapons are perfectly adequate for hunting. What need is there in society for any semi-auto weapon, long or handheld, beyond the presence of other semi-auto weapons? 

[oblong]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

i saw fieger once in court.  he was walking in the hallway in a purple suit with sunglasses on surrounded by about five young lawyers trailing in his wake and basking in the glow of his slimy smug satisfaction.

juries like him though.  he gets the biggest verdicts in michigan (most of which are reduced substantially on appeal).

him getting the democratic nomination foe governor in michigan has to be the lowest point in democratic politics since the state voted for george wallace.

We had bets on whether Engler would get 60%.  I know a lot of Dems who voted GOP for the only time in their life that election. 
 

funny thing is now I bet he’d win.  He is the kind of guy who could run third party and eat into the trumpification of the GOP.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

as a gun owner, what law could be passed that would have absolutely prevented sandy hook other than outright prohibition on guns?  

Let me tell a family story before I dive into answering the rest of your question. In the picture above is my mom's brother, my uncle. My uncle suffers from paranoid schizophrenia. He is 64 now and has had the diagnosis since he was discharged from the Army at age 22. He was in and out of psych hospitals and on and off medication for a period of approx. 25 years between the late 1970's and around the year 2001. In 2001 my mom's dad, my grandfather passed away, and ever since then something clicked in my uncles mind and he's been better about taking his medication, he's received injectable medication once a month, and has been a responsible member of society, living his best life.

For the 20 years prior to 2001, his life was a mess. The only reason he wasn't homeless during that time period is because he had VA benefits from the Army that gave him money to subsist and because people like my mother, chased every mental health professional and social worker in the State of Michigan around to ensure her brother had a place to live. When he was doing ok and on his medication he'd go stay at my grandfather's house. When he was off his medication and in a state of paranoia or delusion or having an episode, he'd have to get kicked out of the house because he'd get angry, aggressive, belligerent, unstable, and violent. He threatened suicide on a couple of different occasions and also threatened violence against others in his family living in my grandfather's household, most notably my grandfather himself, his older sister who lived there and his younger brother who lived there. He used to pace the hallways at night with a baseball bat, knife, lead pipe, whatever he could get his hands on, forcing my family to have to barricade their doors at night time just to hide from him.

Guess what, like a bunch of irresponsible morons, my grandfather, grandmother, and aunt who all lived over at the house owned guns. A house full of people ranging from a child with my aunts son on up to my grandparents owned guns with a mentally ill and unstable person living with them. One day, back in the mid-1980s, while my one of my mom's other sisters was up visiting from the Atlanta area, my uncle had a violent episode at my grandfather's house right in front of everyone living their, including my visiting aunt. He came up from the basement, where his temporary room was at, and had a double barrel shotgun in his hand. Right in front of my grandfather, grandmother, and my mom's two sisters, he racked that shotgun and started cackling with laughter. He looked over at my mom's sister (the one visiting from Atlanta) and said to her "I'm not going to shoot anyone, but I bet I scared you all didn't I."

Thank god he didn't shoot anyone. But in the wake of that incident and many like it that families and people all across our country have had to deal with, why in the hell was a gun allowed to be unlocked, much less in the home, where a mentally ill person lived?

Now onto your question, what Australia did in 1996 is what needs to be done here in America. We need a gun buyback program. But since you asked the question and said without doing a gun ban/buyback as Australia did, you need rigorous background checks, red flag laws, and mental health screenings among other things to prevent mass shootings from happening. I'll go through this one by one though.

Longer, tougher background checks that include a social media sweep

First, we need longer background checks. I mean background checks that take weeks to complete and are inspected by multiple individuals, not just a guy behind the counter at a gun store. Law enforcement and legal experts should review each and every background check. The check needs to be long enough in length so that an adequate professional has had the time to run a full and complete investigation into your past. That includes a sweep of your social media and online postings, which should be required to be reviewed. Any criminal past that comes up on your record that involved violence or violent behavior should prohibit you from owning that gun. Any social media posts that are deemed threatening or violent in any nature should also prohibit you from owning a gun.

Additionally, if you want to own a gun, every single person listed at your residence should have to go through a background check and if anyone living at your home address has a criminal background that involves a violent past, that would prohibit you from being a licensed gun owner. As well, if someone new moves into your domicile, they are required to have a background check and if they fail the background check, you would be forced to turn your guns over or have that person leave and no longer live at the residence. Those individuals social media should also be required to be swept and if their social media contains violent or threatening posts, again, either you give up your guns or they must leave the residence and no longer live there.

Registration requirements and criminal liability

Every gun you own should have to be registered to you directly and you should have to be fingerprinted at the time of purchase. If that gun gets used in a crime, by someone other than the owner, than the owner of that gun should also be held criminally liable. If the gun was stolen than it needs to be reported to proper law enforcement agencies as stolen. Failing to do so would make you liable in that person's crime as well.

Mental health evaluations

Everyone living in your residence as a gun owner, including you, should be required to take a comprehensive mental health evaluation from a licensed mental healthcare doctor or professional. If you have a son or daughter or someone at your residence who has a brain health issue related to mental illness, you would be prohibited from buying and owning a gun.

Adam Lanza, who shot up Sandy Hook Elementary, had a diagnosable mental illness, Asperger's Syndrome, as well as suffering from anxiety and depression. His mother was reckless and irresponsible with her guns and as a result, 28 people lost their lives that day in Newtown at Sandy Hook. Adam Lanza, Ethan Crumbley, my mom's schizophrenic  brother, and many others like them should not be living in homes with such ease of access to guns. 

Requirement for gun safes with combination or key locks and locks on all guns

Guns stored in a home should be required to be locked up in a combination or key safe where only one to two persons have access to that safe. If your gun is used in a crime than law enforcement would have the right to inspect your home and see what, if any, gun safes there are in the home. They would also be able to look at any and all gun locks. Any gun not currently in use should be required to have a lock on it at all times, without exception. If someone breaks into your home, well then, you're going to have to get the lock off your gun first. Again, as with the safe issue, if you are found to have guns not under a lock at your home, you will be held criminally liable for your negligence.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Jim Cowan]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

So...they read newspapers then?

[CMRivdogs]

This should be gun safety 101. 

 

But Freedom!!!!

[oblong]

10 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

This should be gun safety 101. 

 

But Freedom!!!!

The gun owners I know already do this.  one of my best friends has 23 guns.  All locked up.  He's so fed up with this garbage.  People think they can take a 2 hour class at a VFW hall to be 'licensed to carry' and that's all that is needed.

He's got a temper and his wife teases him that she prefers him when he is carrying because he's smart enough to dial it down. When he's not carrying he can be a jerk sometimes.  

 

[CMRivdogs]

Shortly after doing the last post and while cleaning up after breakfast I had this wild thought.....

Why can't we make gun ownership as difficult as adopting a puppy from a rescue group. Pages of questioners, home inspections, interviews...

 

Sorry you can't have that beagle mix, but take this SIG Sauer as a consolation prize

[oblong]

21 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Shortly after doing the last post and while cleaning up after breakfast I had this wild thought.....

Why can't we make gun ownership as difficult as adopting a puppy from a rescue group. Pages of questioners, home inspections, interviews...

 

Sorry you can't have that beagle mix, but take this SIG Sauer as a consolation prize

BECAUSE LIKE MOSES AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OUR FOUNDING FATHERS DECREED THAT EVERY MAN HAS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN GUNS AND PUT THAT IN THE CONSTUTUTION WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN AMENDED BEST THAT I CAN TELL.  THAT COMES FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD!*

*AND NEVERMIND THAT OTHER STUFF ABOUT THE BLACKS AND WOMEN NOT VOTING, ETC.  look AWAY

 

[buddha]

17 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Anything semi-auto ban

i think you CAN ban semi automatic weapons.  there was a case post heller about a suburb in illinois that banned them.  the seventh ciruit upheld the ban and the supreme court didnt grant cert.

but i dont know what this supreme court would do.  they would probably have four votes to hear a case like that.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[John_Brian_K]

2 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

This should be gun safety 101. 

 

But Freedom!!!!

I do not know about the "but Freedom" comment, but I agree that owners of firearms whose kid uses that firearm to hurt or kill someone should be held responsible and do jail time.

[oblong]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Is he going to talk about how he supports BLM?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Remember when right-wing media and Republicans mocked the kids that survived the Parkland school shooting.