Tigers Hire Scott Harris as President of Baseball Operations

[casimir]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

I didn't hear Harris refer to "our ballclub" in his press conference neither did I hear the words "happy" or "quality".

 

Good points.

When questioned about Cabrera, he didn't retort back with "You try to trade him".

[Tenacious D]

he better be a Diet Pepsi guy.

[sabretooth]

Candy has shown some signs of life in the second half with a good July and September, sandwiched around an awful August.  He's probably not a solution to anything but if they can have him around in 2023 for cheap in case he figures it out again, that would be fine.

Schoop has had 2 BB, 2 singles, 2 doubles, and 2 HR in his last 28 PA....that's not good but it's a better than horrible for a short stretch.  All we need out of him is the Brandon Inge reboot version circa 2009-2010....87 and 93 OPS+, good defense, 1.3 and 1.6 WAR.  I give it a 50/50 chance.

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Good points.

When questioned about Cabrera, he didn't retort back with "You try to trade him".

You couldn't trade Miggy for a double cheeseburger...

 

...'cause he already ate it

[Tenacious D]

37 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Candy has shown some signs of life in the second half with a good July and September, sandwiched around an awful August.  He's probably not a solution to anything but if they can have him around in 2023 for cheap in case he figures it out again, that would be fine.

Schoop has had 2 BB, 2 singles, 2 doubles, and 2 HR in his last 28 PA....that's not good but it's a better than horrible for a short stretch.  All we need out of him is the Brandon Inge reboot version circa 2009-2010....87 and 93 OPS+, good defense, 1.3 and 1.6 WAR.  I give it a 50/50 chance.

if we don't move on from guys like this, we might end up with the same roster.  Haase, Reyes and the Castro boys could all be back as our bench (and hopefully nothing more than that).  from a starting position standpoint, the opportunity to upgrade (assumes Tork and Greene are being counted on in 1B and CF and stuck with Miggy at DH), are at 2B, 3B, C and one of the corner outfield spots.  If you bring back Candy and Schoop in a starting capacity, you are really only changing out C and one outfield spot.  I'd be fine with going with Jake Rogers and Haase at C.  

Let's go get a real SS and LF.  Move Baez to 2B and keep Schoop for UT (1B/2B/3B).  bye bye, Candy.

[sabretooth]

44 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

if we don't move on from guys like this, we might end up with the same roster.  Haase, Reyes and the Castro boys could all be back as our bench (and hopefully nothing more than that).  from a starting position standpoint, the opportunity to upgrade (assumes Tork and Greene are being counted on in 1B and CF and stuck with Miggy at DH), are at 2B, 3B, C and one of the corner outfield spots.  If you bring back Candy and Schoop in a starting capacity, you are really only changing out C and one outfield spot.  I'd be fine with going with Jake Rogers and Haase at C.  

Let's go get a real SS and LF.  Move Baez to 2B and keep Schoop for UT (1B/2B/3B).  bye bye, Candy.

I completely agree with this plan, its what I would really love to see, especially if its Correa. 

I would also not mind if they cut Candy, get him on a minimum 1 year deal, and stash him at Toledo just in case.

[HeyAbbott]

5 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

if we don't move on from guys like this, we might end up with the same roster.  Haase, Reyes and the Castro boys could all be back as our bench (and hopefully nothing more than that).  from a starting position standpoint, the opportunity to upgrade (assumes Tork and Greene are being counted on in 1B and CF and stuck with Miggy at DH), are at 2B, 3B, C and one of the corner outfield spots.  If you bring back Candy and Schoop in a starting capacity, you are really only changing out C and one outfield spot.  I'd be fine with going with Jake Rogers and Haase at C.  

Let's go get a real SS and LF.  Move Baez to 2B and keep Schoop for UT (1B/2B/3B).  bye bye, Candy.

We have a 40 man roster, where 12 to 16 probably should be gone. I could live with the above plan because I think the minimum is we need a new 3B, a different SS/ 2B and a new  LF for '23. I still want to see the pile of bodies  trimmed from the 40 mam roster at the end of the day as well.

[Wockenfussy]

On 9/25/2022 at 2:15 PM, chasfh said:

I know this is probably weird, but one of the things I am excited to see is whom Scott Harris will shitcan this winter. Almost as much as whom we will pick up to replace them. I think I might be disappointed if more than half the guys I named were on the 40-man next April. 

I don't think this is weird at all. Dead weight, or perhaps better put, players who do not fit into future plans should be traded, DFA'd, scuttled, cut loose, whatever to the largest and fastest degree which is practical.

[chasfh]

55 minutes ago, Wockenfussy said:

I don't think this is weird at all. Dead weight, or perhaps better put, players who do not fit into future plans should be traded, DFA'd, scuttled, cut loose, whatever to the largest and fastest degree which is practical.

I agree, and I’m excited to see who goes!

[Tigermojo]

I think his first move is going to be hiring a GM.

[djhutch]

I don't follow this as closely as I used to, since cutting my cable.  Haven't bought the MLB stream yet, so I stay out of the game threads `cuz I haven't been able to watch much.

That said, I understand this rebuild is still going to take a while - and it seems to me it could do more harm than good to buy out Miggy.  It's one season.  If he wants to come back, let him.  You don't have to start him, even at DH. 

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, djhutch said:

I don't follow this as closely as I used to, since cutting my cable.  Haven't bought the MLB stream yet, so I stay out of the game threads `cuz I haven't been able to watch much.

That said, I understand this rebuild is still going to take a while - and it seems to me it could do more harm than good to buy out Miggy.  It's one season.  If he wants to come back, let him.  You don't have to start him, even at DH. 

it depends on who he is blocking. Given a scenario where Baddoo, Greene and one or more of the Meadows ends up as the outfield, and Kerry Carpenter could put up an 800 OPS at DH, are you really going to let Miguel have any number of AB at <500 OPS? The offense has been so bad we didn't have anyone to bump Miguel. To assume there is room for him to DH next season is to admit in advance that Harris is going to fail to make any significant improvement in the offense. 

There is only one scenario I can see under which Miguel comes back, and that is that he undergoes some off season medical treatment that could potentially help the knee. IMO, for him to try to come back without some change in his physical condition is pointless for him and impossible for the team.

 

[Tenacious D]

6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

There is only one scenario I can see under which Miguel comes back, and that is that he undergoes some off season medical treatment that could potentially help the knee. IMO, for him to try to come back without some change in his physical condition is pointless for him and impossible for the team.

 

I thought I had read somewhere that his knee could not be repaired surgically.  

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I thought I had read somewhere that his knee could not be repaired surgically.  

I believe that is correct, subject to the consideration that medical technology is always a moving target.

[Tenacious D]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I believe that is correct, subject to the consideration that medical technology is always a moving target.

That’s true. We’ll have to see if Miggy is willing to do whatever it takes to leverage  current medical technology.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Tenacious D

[mtutiger]

14 hours ago, djhutch said:

That said, I understand this rebuild is still going to take a while - and it seems to me it could do more harm than good to buy out Miggy.  It's one season.  If he wants to come back, let him.  You don't have to start him, even at DH. 

Harris may choose to make it work, but as a new PBO who will be judged on what happens going forward on the diamond, he should have the flexibility to discuss Miguel's status and how / if he fits in with future Tiger teams.

Going back to the Harris press conference as well, I was left with the impression that he doesn't like applying labels like "rebuild" to the team and basically wants to use every tool at his disposal in order to put the best possible team on the field. For better or worse, Miguel hinders that ability; not because of the money (that's just a sunk cost at this point) but by hindering roster flexibility 

Edited September 29, 2022 by mtutiger

[romad1]

Miggy's HR last night was such a nice surprise.  Then i saw him hit into that DP in the next AB and I was like...oh yeah, he's really broken

[RandyMarsh]

The Cubs did a full tear down and tank job when he was there but the Giants never did despite finishing neck and neck with us for worst record back in 2017.

I remember actually being surprised that they made some win now moves in the following years which went against the grain of how most other orgs were operating but it paid off for them last year. It sounds like he is more apt to take the Giants mindset with us vs. the Cubs.

Edited September 29, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Dan Gilmore]

Just a guess, but I think they will try and thread the needle with Miggy’s playing time next year. Not release him (mostly for PR) , hope he rests up and can have enough health to perform at a low, but not awful, level. Limit his games, with Carpenter and/or Meadows able to DH. See if that keeps the knee healthy enough to produce close to what he did for a short stretch earlier this year. But be ready to DL him (60 day?) if he falters to the level he’s been on for the last couple moths. 
 

There are roster composition problems with carrying him that way. Maybe he gets 200 ABs and sits a lot. Maybe he objects and it all blows up. I just don’t see them cutting him loose to start the season, or going forward with the idea he’s the regular DH. How big is the eye of the needle?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Miggy's HR last night was such a nice surprise.  Then i saw him hit into that DP in the next AB and I was like...oh yeah, he's really broken

It's was amazing he hit the ball 400 feet on that flat footed swing. Well of course he mostly can't which is why he's not much threat as a hitter anymore.

[mtutiger]

23 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Just a guess, but I think they will try and thread the needle with Miggy’s playing time next year. Not release him (mostly for PR) , hope he rests up and can have enough health to perform at a low, but not awful, level. Limit his games, with Carpenter and/or Meadows able to DH. See if that keeps the knee healthy enough to produce close to what he did for a short stretch earlier this year. But be ready to DL him (60 day?) if he falters to the level he’s been on for the last couple moths. 
 

There are roster composition problems with carrying him that way. Maybe he gets 200 ABs and sits a lot. Maybe he objects and it all blows up. I just don’t see them cutting him loose to start the season, or going forward with the idea he’s the regular DH. How big is the eye of the needle?

This is all probably correct and it probably is the path of least resistance to bring him along for at least the first couple of months of next year.

In general when this conversation comes up though, it seems like some downplay the impact of him holding down a roster spot; that's one less 26 man spot for someone who could be acquired through free agency, trade, or from the minor leagues, and subsequently one less 40 man spot for someone who could be added as well. Granted, as Ed has suggested in the past, concerns about the 40 man can be overblown as there is chaff that can be removed, but if you are an incoming GM who wants to improve the roster via trade or free agency and / or evaluate the talent that this org currently possess (which he no doubted has been charged with doing), that roster spot being off the table is not at all ideal.

And it's easy for us as fans to look at 2023 as a write off, but Harris did not give that impression at his presser nor in his work with the Giants; he sounds like a man who wants to improve the roster as it is currently built and put the best possible product out on the field. I love Miggy, but he's an impediment to that for better or worse.

Edited September 29, 2022 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I love Miggy, but he's an impediment to that for better or worse.

This. 

And how much Miguel's remaining skills fell off this season. At 80 games he wasn't hitting for power but he had a 308 BA and 718 OPS, and was occasionally getting some weight shift in his swing. That was not hard to live with in a league where hitting was down generally and esp in the context of rest of the Tiger team not being good hitters either. But he basically completely fell apart the 2nd half - 146 BA, 432 OPS and a flat foot hitting approach. That you just can't carry. So that is why I think it 100% goes to the knee. If some level of recovery of his condition from where is it is now isn't possible, he needs to hang 'em up.

[Tenacious D]

we'll know very quickly after the season whether Miggy is in the plans for next year or not.  They won't cut/waive him later.  I fully suspect he will be part of the roster in 2023, unless his pride gets the best of him and he can work it our with the Tigers to get paid without playing.  I do think he will want the imminently retiring star player treatment, though, as he makes his way across the league (rocking chair gifts, etc.).  

File this under a situation we can't control, so lamenting his involvement next season is probably futile.  Hopefully Harris can mitigate his roster inclusion with some creativity and Hinch can manage his playing time and ego, if that becomes an issue.  I personally think that Miggy realizes he's done, and won't be a problem/distraction in a diminished role next season.

[bobrob2004]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

The Cubs did a full tear down and tank job when he was there but the Giants never did despite finishing neck and neck with us for worst record back in 2017.

And the Giants haven't technically been eliminated yet.  It'll take a lot going right for them to get in, though, jumping over the Brewers and Phillies.  

The Phillies have lost 4 games in a row and the Brewers are only 1/2 game back.  This is really the only race left worth watching.  Baltimore hasn't been eliminated yet either, but they've lost 2 in a row.  

Mets and Braves still have a race going on.  This matters because whoever wins the division gets a bye in the first round.  Although I don't think anyone outside of New York and Atlanta really cares about this.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

we'll know very quickly after the season whether Miggy is in the plans for next year or not.  They won't cut/waive him later.  I fully suspect he will be part of the roster in 2023, unless his pride gets the best of him and he can work it our with the Tigers to get paid without playing. 

I just saw a quote that he's determined to come back next year in better condition to stand up to a full season. I don't how he plans to accomplish that with his mobility so limited, but I wish him all the luck in the world.