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31 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Never found out why Jerry needed the money so badly.  I guess that's the MacGuffin of the movie.    

There was  the scene in the bar when he was going over the details and Carl is about to say something and just says, paraphrasing, “ah screw it. Let’s check out that tan Sierra”.  Was the $750K from Wade to cover his debt or a real deal he’d use the proceeds to cover?

 

I use the line “you ask Stan Grossman, he’ll tell you” when trying to convince someone of a good idea I have. 

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6 hours ago, oblong said:

There was  the scene in the bar when he was going over the details and Carl is about to say something and just says, paraphrasing, “ah screw it. Let’s check out that tan Sierra”.  Was the $750K from Wade to cover his debt or a real deal he’d use the proceeds to cover?

 

I use the line “you ask Stan Grossman, he’ll tell you” when trying to convince someone of a good idea I have. 

Well Stan did say it was a pretty sweet deal.    Yer darn tootin' 

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7 hours ago, oblong said:

They called the Shuttle The Flying Brick.  From a technical standpoint it was always an experimental test vehicle.   Both accidents were not suprises when they happened.  

 

I think the two failures that led to the accidents were quite different from an engineering perspective though. The thermal tiles were a bleeding edge technology and the risks they carried were the 'normal' kind of 'we're doing something way out at the edge that we know is dangerous and this is the best thing we can come up with to even make it possible. OTOH, launching when it was cold enough that the o-rings were going to be stiff enough to leak was bad safety culture creating a risk where none needed to be. The tech and it's safety parameters were well known and easily understood. There was no 'accepted developmental risk' associated with Challenger. That was a man made disaster.

Edited by gehringer_2
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19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think the two failures that led to the accidents were quite different from an engineering perspective though. The thermal tiles were a bleeding edge technology and the risks they carried were the 'normal' kind of 'we're doing something way out at the edge that we know is dangerous and this is the best thing we can come up with to even make it possible. OTOH, launching when it was cold enough that the o-rings were going to be stiff enough to leak was bad safety culture creating a risk where none needed to be. The tech and it's safety parameters were well known and easily understood. There was no 'accepted developmental risk' associated with Challenger. That was a man made disaster.

You are right.  The tiles were an issue known all along. I mean they were there for a reason and times were replaced after each mission. Each one was hand placed and many had to be specifically cut. In that scenario nobody really did anything wrong. Conspiracy theories abound that leadership knew it was doomed, but like they said in Apollo 12 after being struck by lightning at launch and worrying about the heat shield and chute electronics being fried preventing deployment,  “well we would die now or 10 days from now so we might as well do the mission”  They were test pilots.

Doing “rescues” wasn’t feasible given all the prep work involved in a mission and having consumables onboard the doomed craft to support a crew for the time it would take. For a later mission they did have one setup as contingency.  But it would not be easy due to the # of spacesuits required for EVA. I saw an elaborate flowchart showing the sequence between Astros going up and who was already there based on body size.  
 

The O rings was a failure by management and politicians rushing missions and not listening to the engineers. Great documentary on Netflix about it. The Apollo guys involved in the investigation were not happy. 

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7 hours ago, oblong said:

I can’t wait to run over it. It will be open to pedestrian traffic. 
 

Running over the ambassador bridge for the free press half marathon was so amazing.  That alone makes the training worth it. 

You should really do the Labor Day Mackinac Bridge Walk/Run. Talk about a great experience!

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