2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League

[RandyMarsh]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Saber prospect writers do that all the time.  

Yeah I noticed that. It's funny all offseason mlb writers talked about wanting more teams to "go for it" even if they weren't contenders on paper and they shouldn't care about the bottom line then when a team does just thattheir colleagues write up about it, says they're not smart then poke holes in their plan and break down everything in dollars and cents. 

[mtutiger]

41 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

A trade can be good for both teams, but I still like this trade for the Tigers.  I don't think Paredes will ever be as good as Meadows.  I get the impression that Paredes has always been more highly regarded by the saber community than the scouting community, so I am not surprised that FanGraphs would like him.

This is my view as well.

Clemens may be entirely correct about where Paredes will end up in terms of a professional athlete (I'm skeptical, but who knows, the Rays always seem to find a way)... but even setting that aside, the reality is that there really isn't a place for Paredes to land in this lineup. He's not gonna be a 3B with Candy, he's probably not athletic enough to be a full time 2B (assuming Schoop's option isn't exercised next year), he's not gonna get the time as DH, etc. And the Tigers clearly seem to value Kreidler as the next man up, if for nothing else because he can man SS and 2B and play exceptional defense while, hopefully, providing decent offensive production. 

Additionally, Clemens really doesn't address the fact that Paredes was sort of blocked with this roster, and I suspect that part of the reason he doesn't is due to the fact that he doesn't treat the Tigers competing as a realistic possibility (he alludes to this at least once in the piece) and, perhaps, may be inclined to think they are in a situation where they can find Paredes ABs with the big club. Whether the Tigers can compete this year or not is to be seen, but the infield situation is such where Paredes isn't getting the kind of ABs he needs anytime soon here. 

So why the hell not trade the guy who is blocked for some value? Seems like everyone wins in that deal.

Edited April 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tenacious D]

Ben Clemens routinely forgets to screw the cap back on his toothpaste.

[mtutiger]

24 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know the Rays are a smart team, perhaps the smartest but that doesn't mean other teams including the Tigers are stupid.(despite what some fans lead you to believe)

I'm sure the Tigers analytic and scouting departments went over a number of scenarios including signing Conforto and they came to conclusion this was the best one and probably not just cause they want an immediate impact player likeClemens suggests. 

Also he acts like the Tigers don't have this same "basic" info that he used (put it in quotes cause the metrics he used are basic compared to what mlb teams have access to these days) at their fingertips and didn't take any of it into account. 

Idk the whole write up just bugged me cause it came across like the Tigers are stupid for thinking they can contend and just traded away some valuable player on a whim without doing their homework. 

Yup. 

He sort of comes across unknowledgeable about the Tigers situation as well. Not even just the question of whether they will or won't be competitive but just the overall makeup of the upper echelon of the minor leagues and how that fits with the big club roster.

Edited April 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah I noticed that. It's funny all offseason mlb writers talked about wanting more teams to "go for it" even if they weren't contenders on paper and they shouldn't care about the bottom line then when a team does just thattheir colleagues write up about it, says they're not smart then poke holes in their plan and break down everything in dollars and cents. 

I think they are sometimes under pressure to churn out articles quickly for a small payment and need to come up with something different from what others are saying.  I once had one of those gigs writing about relievers from a fantasy baseball perspective.  I quit after two months because I knew I wasn't an expert at all and was churning out shallow BS to meet deadlines.  I didn't need the money and it was a lot more fun just writing my own stuff for free.  

Edited April 5, 2022 by Tiger337

[Stanley70]

The Rays are betting that Meadows has regressed from his what he was despite being only 26 years old. And he isn't likely to be much value moving forward. Parades is unlikely to be better but they saved money and received a draft pick.

 

[RatkoVarda]

hopefully the Tigers got what they wanted - a current LH power bat

maybe the Rays get what they want, but who cares?

not surprising to me that Fangraphs and the rest of the world last week, did not write articles explaining that Parades alone is better than Meadows

[Tenacious D]

At the risk of offending some here, most of the baseball analytics elitist community can bite it.  I’m not opposed to analytics, just many of the douchers who are jerks about it, which is largely contained  to podcasts and the Tweeter. 

See Clemens, Ben and his never-Ben-kissed self.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Tenacious D

[KL2]

36 minutes ago, Stanley70 said:

The Rays are betting that Meadows has regressed from his what he was despite being only 26 years old. And he isn't likely to be much value moving forward. Parades is unlikely to be better but they saved money and received a draft pick.

 

I don't think they Meadows has regressed a ton. He was still a 2.0 WAR player last year. But they have two OF and a hot prospect ready. Not to mention Meadows was starting to cost money. It makes sense for them, he didn't fit. They get a younger player a top 75 pick and salary relief. 

[Jim Cowan]

If you had asked me yesterday what Paredes' trade value was, I would have said "bag of baseballs".

[1984Echoes]

23 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

If you had asked me yesterday what Paredes' trade value was, I would have said "bag of baseballs".

Yeah.. exactly.

To your point: I think if any one of us came on yesterday and said, "Hey, we should trade Paredes for Austin Meadows!!!"... 

Said person would have been nearly laughed off the board...

[TigerNation]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

But the question is more valuable for who. Part of what makes trades work is that the player you receive is more valuable *to you* than the one you gave up. Unless the team you traded with is one potentially ahead of you in the standing, it doesn't much matter what the value of the player you traded is to his new team. Tigers need a bat like Meadows a lot more than they need a player with Paredes profile. Now if Meadows turns out to be damaged goods for some reason, then Al will have blown it, but it's way premature to make that kind of negative assumption just because it was Tampa that decided to move him.

Yes, so much of the fangraphs trade analysis is just which team maximized the salary/WAR ratio.

How'd that work out for the Cubs when they traded for Quintana instead of Verlander? 

 

[KL2]

6 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Yes, so much of the fangraphs trade analysis is just which team maximized the salary/WAR ratio.

How'd that work out for the Cubs when they traded for Quintana instead of Verlander? 

 

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Yes, so much of the fangraphs trade analysis is just which team maximized the salary/WAR ratio.

How'd that work out for the Cubs when they traded for Quintana instead of Verlander? 

 

Another good question here is how useful Paredes' WAR potential is for the Tigers if he's playing in Toledo all year because there isn't a slot for him in Detroit.

As many have suggested, maybe both teams got what they wanted out of the deal and it makes sense within the context of their situations.

But that doesn't get clicks lol

Edited April 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[KL2]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Another good question here is how useful Paredes' WAR potential is for the Tigers if he's playing in Toledo all year because there isn't a slot for him in Detroit.

As many have suggested, maybe both teams got what they wanted out of the deal and it makes sense within the context of their situations.

But that doesn't get clicks lol

I have worked at a lot of news organizations and nobody has ever been told to form an opinion to get clicks. 

In 99 percent of cases its a lack of research/laziness. Thats what it looks like here. 

[Tigeraholic1]

This kid is fitting right in.

 

 

[Tiger337]

37 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Yes, so much of the fangraphs trade analysis is just which team maximized the salary/WAR ratio.

How'd that work out for the Cubs when they traded for Quintana instead of Verlander? 

 

I got tired of the salary /WAR analyses years ago.  I know that on average, one WAR is worth 8 million (or whatever value they are using now), but it varies a lot from situation to situation.  Teams with bigger payrolls don't need to worry as much about salary.  Also, performance becomes more important than salary when you need just one more player to win the division as opposed to being in re-building mode.  

And from a fan perspective, it doesn't really matter that much.  You just want to see your team put the best team on the field and are not concerned with efficiency.  

[Tiger337]

27 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

This kid is fitting right in.

 

 

With the emphasis on kid!  These guys look so young now.  

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, KL2 said:

I have worked at a lot of news organizations and nobody has ever been told to form an opinion to get clicks. 

 

the editors do that when they fill-in the headlines.....

[Motor City Sonics]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

A trade can be good for both teams, but I still like this trade for the Tigers.  I don't think Paredes will ever be as good as Meadows.  I get the impression that Paredes has always been more highly regarded by the saber community than the scouting community, so I am not surprised that FanGraphs would like him.

We needed an outfielder.  We had a guy who was given the chance to beat out the Castros and did not.  And the way Kody Clemens hit today, I think Issac would have been behind him too on the depth chart.   Even if Meadows doesn't work out like we hope, we really didn't lose anything we were going to use.     They needed the body,  they really were about the extra pick.   

Our coaching staff seems to have a knack for fixing guys too.........

[KL2]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the editors do that when they fill-in the headlines.....

All. The. Time

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, KL2 said:

I have worked at a lot of news organizations and nobody has ever been told to form an opinion to get clicks. 

In 99 percent of cases its a lack of research/laziness. Thats what it looks like here. 

I know someone who worked for a news organization who said they wanted controversial opinons or a controversial writing style to get clicks. Maybe that is not the norm, but it certainly seems like some of the big ones say outrageous things to get clicks/viewers/readers.  

 

[casimir]

I think fans can sometimes get too wrapped up in what others say about the transactions that their teams make (or don’t make).  Time will tell how the deal works out.  I think it makes sense for the Tigers.  If some Twitter account takes the opposite opinion, so be it.

[casimir]

25 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

We needed an outfielder.  We had a guy who was given the chance to beat out the Castros and did not.  And the way Kody Clemens hit today, I think Issac would have been behind him too on the depth chart.   Even if Meadows doesn't work out like we hope, we really didn't lose anything we were going to use.     They needed the body,  they really were about the extra pick.   

Our coaching staff seems to have a knack for fixing guys too.........

As well as Clemens hit the ball, how about the Mud Hen pitchers?  6 Ps combined on a 2 H, 3 BB, 16 SO shutout.  Not a bad way to open the season.

[Tiger337]

11 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think fans can sometimes get too wrapped up in what others say about the transactions that their teams make (or don’t make).  Time will tell how the deal works out.  I think it makes sense for the Tigers.  If some Twitter account takes the opposite opinion, so be it.

Surprisingly, I have yet to see any Tigers fan not like the deal yet.