1984Echoes Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said: one thing to roll the dice on Tork and Greene contributing; quite different to roll with Haas, Garneau, Greiner, Dingler (who IMO will not see Det in 2022). Right... But are we just trying to get by in 2022 (pushing for the playoffs but, certainly, not a championship-level team yet so... one get-by year shouldn't be a major problem...) and counting on some kind of decent contributions in 2023 from Rogers/ Haase/ Dingler...? Or are we going all out in 2022? If there's a decent veteran we can add in 2022 for a year or two... I'm all for that. But I think we've all looked around and have not really been impressed with our options... So can we just get-by for one more year with Greiner/ Garneau type players... just for 2022? And to acknowledge G2's point... yeah, I think both are free agent options but, I don't think it would be too difficult to get them back in 2022... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 I think it's unrealistic to expect the Tigers or any team really to fill all their holes in one off season(that's what she said). Their biggest needs are at SS and another starting pitcher or 2. I think that's where you start, if all you accomplish is filling those needs then I think it's still a big win. Perhaps at the deadline or next offseason we can go get a dominant reliever, an upgrade at catcher or another power bat and truly look to be legit playoff and in turn World Series threats by 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Yeah, I'm on board with trade deadline 2022 evaluations (of our team, position in the standings, and playoff aspirations/ needs...). I think I'd want to add one offseason FA reliever into the mix, just for the competition aspect of it (and... the more the merrier...). And if we needed at add an additional arm/ bat/ catcher at the deadline then be able to consider that avenue as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I think Al will definitely add a catcher and probably even pay some money to do so. Gomes, Barnhart , Pina , Perez or similar. We need someone very competent to handle our young pitching even if they do not hit much. I also don't know if we can rely on Rogers bat nor is it a given his arm will recover after Tommy John surgery. The results are good but no guarantee. And yes we should "go for it " in 2022. damn straight we should !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, SoCalTiger said: I think Al will definitely add a catcher and probably even pay some money to do so. Gomes, Barnhart , Pina , Perez or similar. We need someone very competent to handle our young pitching even if they do not hit much. I also don't know if we can rely on Rogers bat nor is it a given his arm will recover after Tommy John surgery. The results are good but no guarantee. And yes we should "go for it " in 2022. damn straight we should !!! Avila said he would add a catcher and he also does what he says he's going to do even if we don't necessarily like his choices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: I have 100% faith that Rogers could have sustained his 2021 performance if the injury had not occurred. Maybe not the .800 OPS but I would bet on 24 HRs and 24 doubles in 135 games which is pretty nice for a number 9 hitter. However, next time he plays he will be 28 so it's possible we have missed his prime years with the bat. I don't about sustaining his 2021, but at least he put 2019 into question rather than affirm those stats. 6 hours ago, diaspora04 said: I wonder whether catchers have shorter or earlier primes than they would otherwise have due to wear and tear. I wonder how much extra rust there could be for a catcher that was just trying to return in 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Stanley70 said: There are a few players that have been around a few years that if they are still on the team opening day 2022 it should be considered a bad sign. One of them is Grayson Greiner. He can not hit, at all. Niko Goodrum and Buck Farmer are a couple others. Buckaroo was released and then signed with the Rangers organization in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: I think Al will definitely add a catcher and probably even pay some money to do so. Gomes, Barnhart , Pina , Perez or similar. We need someone very competent to handle our young pitching even if they do not hit much. I also don't know if we can rely on Rogers bat nor is it a given his arm will recover after Tommy John surgery. The results are good but no guarantee. And yes we should "go for it " in 2022. damn straight we should !!! If this is your thinking you're in for a lot of disapointment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Avila said he would add a catcher and he also does what he says he's going to do even if we don't necessarily like his choices. this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanTigersFan Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 TLDR: Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere. But does anyone else think we are just going to suck next year? Looking at our position players w/o Greene and Torkelson, we are running out 4th OF'rs at every position. The only starting position player we legit have on a championship calibur team is Schoop. And that's pushing it. You could make the argument for Candy, but a 15 HR 3rd baseman isn't really going to get you far........ (He's no where near the caliber of Mochado, Arenado, Austin Riley etc...) Our pitching is in great shape. But unless we get 7 new fielders, we aren't really going anywhere..... Torkelson, Greene and for argument sake Correa. Lets say we get a flash in the pan and one of our current players takes that next step. We have 4 out of 9 batting spots that are legit..... We are still 2-3 years away from being remotely close to being competitive....... Just my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: TLDR: Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere. But does anyone else think we are just going to suck next year? Looking at our position players w/o Greene and Torkelson, we are running out 4th OF'rs at every position. The only starting position player we legit have on a championship calibur team is Schoop. And that's pushing it. You could make the argument for Candy, but a 15 HR 3rd baseman isn't really going to get you far........ (He's no where near the caliber of Mochado, Arenado, Austin Riley etc...) Our pitching is in great shape. But unless we get 7 new fielders, we aren't really going anywhere..... Torkelson, Greene and for argument sake Correa. Lets say we get a flash in the pan and one of our current players takes that next step. We have 4 out of 9 batting spots that are legit..... We are still 2-3 years away from being remotely close to being competitive....... Just my opinion. Whether this is another wasted losing season in 2022 is largely management's decision. Management cannot necessarily "make" this a playoff team, but they can and should try. If we as fans cannot believe that they will at least try to make the playoffs in 2022, I don't see any point of even caring about the team as a whole in 2022. Beyond 2022, predicting a failure to compete is simply saying that management/ownership lacks and will continue to lack the will and/or ability to win. That is certainly possible. As a simple matter of practicality, "this" team (from 2021) largely won't even exist in 2023, as most of the players in 2021 will be gone by then. Only a handful from 2021 are likely to still be around in 2024. Yes, they will likely have added a productive Tork and Greene by 2024, but it will take a lot of management decisions and luck, that we cannot yet even predict, to build a winning team in 2024, regardless of how the team turns out in 2022. At this point, team outcomes, within a 5 or 10 game luck/injury window, are overwhelmingly a reflection on management intention, actions, and ability. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 19 hours ago, diaspora04 said: I wonder whether catchers have shorter or earlier primes than they would otherwise have due to wear and tear. This article is old, but it indicates that catchers tend to peak at the same age as players at other positions. https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/569/catcher-career-paths-do-they-peak-later/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: TLDR: Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere. But does anyone else think we are just going to suck next year? Looking at our position players w/o Greene and Torkelson, we are running out 4th OF'rs at every position. The only starting position player we legit have on a championship calibur team is Schoop. And that's pushing it. You could make the argument for Candy, but a 15 HR 3rd baseman isn't really going to get you far........ (He's no where near the caliber of Mochado, Arenado, Austin Riley etc...) Our pitching is in great shape. But unless we get 7 new fielders, we aren't really going anywhere..... Torkelson, Greene and for argument sake Correa. Lets say we get a flash in the pan and one of our current players takes that next step. We have 4 out of 9 batting spots that are legit..... We are still 2-3 years away from being remotely close to being competitive....... Just my opinion. This is a justifiable take on things. The upswing this year was anomalous in comparison to our expectations. Perhaps our expectations were unrealistically low and the club merely could not continue to trip over its own feet ad infinitum. I remember how the additions of Gary Sheffield or Prince Fielder were supposed to change the curvature of space-time itself if everything else remained the same which, of course, it did not. No doubt other teams too will improve, they will not remain the same, and regardless of all the deserved optimism about how this team performed this season, they were incapable of competing within the Central Division itself. Finally figuring out — and perhaps only temporarily — how to defeat the Seattle Mariners the Astros or teams in the AL East pales in comparison to the monotony of constantly losing to the Royals the Twins the Guardians and the White Sox. It might be a longer time before the dawn than we suspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I don't think this year's improvement is as anomalous as people are saying. They finished 77-85. It is not uncommon for previously poor teams to make that kind of jump especially with an infusion of young players. What I do I like is the apparent new direction of the franchise in terms of management, coaching and analytics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't think this year's improvement is as anomalous as people are saying. They finished 77-85. It is not uncommon for previously poor teams to make that kind of jump especially with an infusion of young players. What I do I like is the apparent new direction of the franchise in terms of management, coaching and analytics. It all comes down to how good these young players are. If they add to the 3 positions Avila has committed to: SS, C, SP with players who are at least moderate improvements, then I would say the remaining projection (and injury!) uncertainty for Mize, Skubal, Manning, Greene and Torkelson and Baddoo is easily the difference between contending and 500 next season. Of course it is still unlikely they all become stars, but they they still hold out the possibility, and for the team to even have that chance is a really nice change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: It all comes down to how good these young players are. If they add to the 3 positions Avila has committed to: SS, C, SP with players who are at least moderate improvements, then I would say the remaining projection (and injury!) uncertainty for Mize, Skubal, Manning, Greene and Torkelson and Baddoo is easily the difference between contending and 500 next season. Of course it is still unlikely they all become stars, but they they still hold out the possibility, and for the team to even have that chance is a really nice change. Yes, It always comes down to the players! I like that we can dream again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: TLDR: Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere. But does anyone else think we are just going to suck next year? Looking at our position players w/o Greene and Torkelson, we are running out 4th OF'rs at every position. The only starting position player we legit have on a championship calibur team is Schoop. And that's pushing it. You could make the argument for Candy, but a 15 HR 3rd baseman isn't really going to get you far........ (He's no where near the caliber of Mochado, Arenado, Austin Riley etc...) Our pitching is in great shape. But unless we get 7 new fielders, we aren't really going anywhere..... Torkelson, Greene and for argument sake Correa. Lets say we get a flash in the pan and one of our current players takes that next step. We have 4 out of 9 batting spots that are legit..... We are still 2-3 years away from being remotely close to being competitive....... Just my opinion. Personally, as far as roster building is concerned, I believe that "cheap and controllable" are going to trump acquisition of proven talent (from outside the organization) , for years to come. When they said they considered the Grossman signing to be a big splash, I think there was some double entendre intended. If it comes down to a choice of paying for a top tier shortstop, or waiting for internal development to produce a serviceable alternative,....I think the latter option is going to win everytime. And the need for patience to accommodate the wait will continue to be buttered with the explanation that in pursuit of a sustainable future...yada yada,... ad nauseam. They are going to try and build a perennial threat for a wildcard slot, not a team that can crush all comers. Edited October 21, 2021 by Useful Idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said: Personally, as far as roster building is concerned, I believe that "cheap and controllable" are going to trump acquisition of proven talent (from outside the organization) , for years to come. When they said they considered the Grossman signing to be a big splash, I think there was some double entendre intended. If it comes down to a choice of paying for a top tier shortstop, or waiting for internal development to produce a serviceable alternative,....I think the latter option is going to win everytime. And the need for patience to accommodate the wait will continue to be buttered with the explanation that in pursuit of a sustainable future...yada yada,... ad nauseam. They are going to try and build a perennial threat for a wildcard slot, not a team that can crush all comers. They have a good talent foundation that might elevate them from a perennial wild card, regardless. I don't think they'll necessarily be cheap, if the opportunity arises. We'll learn this very quickly this offseason, though, with the abundance of very good SP and SS available in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said: They are going to try and build a perennial threat for a wildcard slot, not a team that can crush all comers. I wonder if there can be such a thing. The team with the best record went out in the 1st round. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Tenacious D said: They have a good talent foundation that might elevate them from a perennial wild card, regardless. I don't think they'll necessarily be cheap, if the opportunity arises. We'll learn this very quickly this offseason, though, with the abundance of very good SP and SS available in free agency. I admire your optimism. Wish I could share it. You are correct about their actions this offseason being a good bellwether......I really hope they prove me wrong...really I do. But I suspect they are going to intentionally obfuscate the distinction between "smart" and "Thrift" to their exclusive benefit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I wonder if there can be such a thing. The team with the best record went out in the 1st round. I get your point...it is a valid one, there are no sure things. But my perspective is, the teams that really don't want to spend money, are going to use the wildcard as a "back door" ploy to keep fans in the bleachers as late into the season as possible...for those team owners.. "that" will be their victory. The reality that most fans hearts will be broken by crushing first round elimination...really won't matter to such owners...they'll simply claim that they "tried", and it was up to the players to "step up", who ultimately failed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The team with the best record went out in the 1st round. The Giants peaked too soon...lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I wonder if there can be such a thing. The team with the best record went out in the 1st round. And there is still a wildcard remaining. It is not 100% random, but there is enough randomness to make the outcomes practically meaningless beyond entertainment value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Useful Idiot said: The Giants peaked too soon...lol! They didn't want it enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 It was you specifically that I was thinking of when I posted that...lol! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.