Stanley70 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Unless the Tigers spend a lot of money on 3-4 free agents, they are going to open the season with some serious holes on the team. And that is with Tork and Green making the team. I don't know if they will spend or begin trading prospects to fill SS, 2 SP's, C and some bullpen help. We are counting on Manning to fill a spot in the rotation and that is no certainty either. I am sure they will spend some and then hope to find lower priced players to fill out the rest of them team, but it seems like a long shot to fill all of the holes enough to build an expected playoff team. In 2023 the picture looks a lot better with MIggy coming off the books, Turnbull coming back, and the most recent draft class being closer to the bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Stanley70 said: Unless the Tigers spend a lot of money on 3-4 free agents, they are going to open the season with some serious holes on the team. And that is with Tork and Green making the team. I don't know if they will spend or begin trading prospects to fill SS, 2 SP's, C and some bullpen help. We are counting on Manning to fill a spot in the rotation and that is no certainty either. I am sure they will spend some and then hope to find lower priced players to fill out the rest of them team, but it seems like a long shot to fill all of the holes enough to build an expected playoff team. In 2023 the picture looks a lot better with MIggy coming off the books, Turnbull coming back, and the most recent draft class being closer to the bigs. They will also be trading players. Let’s hope those trades are guided by reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Stanley70 said: Unless the Tigers spend a lot of money on 3-4 free agents, they are going to open the season with some serious holes on the team. And that is with Tork and Green making the team. I don't know if they will spend or begin trading prospects to fill SS, 2 SP's, C and some bullpen help. We are counting on Manning to fill a spot in the rotation and that is no certainty either. I am sure they will spend some and then hope to find lower priced players to fill out the rest of them team, but it seems like a long shot to fill all of the holes enough to build an expected playoff team. In 2023 the picture looks a lot better with MIggy coming off the books, Turnbull coming back, and the most recent draft class being closer to the bigs. Not sure what you're expecting. Top flight short stop $30 million. One of the pitching spots will go to alexander/injury guys/pena/wentz/et all. So $10 million for a pitcher. Then $5 million for a catcher (Hesse will be one and the other guy will just be a stop gap). Even if I spend $5 million for a bullpen arm or two (most the bullpen will be back). That's filling all the needs you mention for $50 million a year. And I doubt they think they are playoff team next year even with the additions. Given the youth of the team. .500 is a more reasonable goal. Edited October 13, 2021 by KL2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 You can't expect to fill every hole in one off season, hell its kinda unreasonable to expect to have a team without any holes period. Even playoff teams generally have some flaws somewhere. The goal should just be to get better every year, I know that sounds obvious but if you add a player or two this year to make you better and the same next year sooner or later youre going to have yourself a really good roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 3 hours ago, KL2 said: Not sure what you're expecting. Top flight short stop $30 million. One of the pitching spots will go to alexander/injury guys/pena/wentz/et all. So $10 million for a pitcher. Then $5 million for a catcher (Hesse will be one and the other guy will just be a stop gap). Even if I spend $5 million for a bullpen arm or two (most the bullpen will be back). That's filling all the needs you mention for $50 million a year. And I doubt they think they are playoff team next year even with the additions. Given the youth of the team. .500 is a more reasonable goal. I'm with KL2's plan: $30 million = Top flight shortstop. $10-15 million = one starting pitcher (I'm thinking we are hunting Ray-Rodon-Syndergaard, not JV, Scherzer-level...) the other starter spot will go to Alexander/injury guys/Peralta/Wentz/minor league FA type starters... $5 million for a 1-year stopgap catcher? $5 million for a bullpen arm? Corey Knebel? = $50-55 million for 2022 alone. Anything more than that is next year off-season when we reevaluate. One difference I have: although .500 is a reasonable goal, I'd rather set my sights higher at 85-90 wins. Higher than that is awesome. Lower than that (.500-ish) is somewhat expected, although disappointing, based on youth as KL2 pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 4 hours ago, KL2 said: Not sure what you're expecting. Top flight short stop $30 million. One of the pitching spots will go to alexander/injury guys/pena/wentz/et all. So $10 million for a pitcher. Then $5 million for a catcher (Hesse will be one and the other guy will just be a stop gap). Even if I spend $5 million for a bullpen arm or two (most the bullpen will be back). That's filling all the needs you mention for $50 million a year. And I doubt they think they are playoff team next year even with the additions. Given the youth of the team. .500 is a more reasonable goal. Some would argue that you shouldn't invest big in free agency if you are not going to field an expected playoff team. I think they will bring in at least one big name free agent, it's just after that where it becomes unclear. For the rotation will they spend 15-20 million on someone like Robbie Ray? Or go cheaper on another round of rehab projects? Even if they spend like you suggest they aren't adding anything to the bullpen. And will they trade a prospect or two this year to add bullpen arm? My sense is they will go after a big time SS and after that it will be similar to the last couple of off seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) Repeat after me, everybody penciling him into next year's rotation: Wily Peralta Is A Free Agent Edited October 13, 2021 by Edman85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theroundsquare Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 so you're saying he'll play for the Tigers for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 54 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Repeat after me, everybody penciling him into next year's rotation: Wily Peralta Is A Free Agent I think they will try to keep him for another year. I don't think he would be too expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Plus there is the whole issue of nobody else wanting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 We all want Correa/Seager/Story and Verlander....can we live with Chris Taylor /Marcus Semien or maybe even Freddy Galvis and Kevin Gausmen ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Do the Phillies need a short term starter, that would be right up DD's alley coveting a pitcher with a short track record, bad peripherals but has been pitching recently to a solid era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Edman85 said: Repeat after me... We know. We would like to sign him back. For Cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: We know. We would like to sign him back. For Cheap. Speak for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Just now, chasfh said: Speak for yourself. Edman was speaking of "all those"... which is a we, not an I. If you are excluded, no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Just now, 1984Echoes said: Edman was speaking of "all those"... which is a we, not an I. If you are excluded, no worries. Cool. Thanks. Because I’d prefer not to re-sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Quite a few probably think he's a late-model flash-in-the-pan, or that he'll be expensive. I don't think either. I don't think he'll get any big offers. And I think he added a pitch, which, doesn't make me think that he's a #5 starter for a team, but that he should be a #6 and use him in an emergency. I might not win on that, he might get himself a really decent contract... but I'll believe it when I see it. I'm OK with him as 6th starter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) Wily Peralta's peripherals suggest he'll be terrible next year. Not interested in seeing him signed. Edited October 14, 2021 by Tiger337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 35 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Wily Peralta's peripherals suggest he'll be terrible next year. Not interested in seeing him signed. He's hiding under your bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 11:48 AM, 1984Echoes said: Yes. Let him get his two Arb seasons. And, reassess mid-2023 what we should do. Is Paredes starting to crush it and slots into 3B? Or providing same ratio stats and fielding as Jeimer? Is Workman at AAA and moved over to 3B because of, whatever, ... and knocking at MLB with outstanding offensive numbers and excellent fielding? Is Colten Keith right behind him at AA, same production? Absolutely foolish to go past his arb years right now. He's a decent guy, I like him, at 3-4 WAR per year for another couple years, but... Mid-season 2023... I reassess. If the Tigers end up with a crowded infield and have prospects coming up that are worthy of playing time, there's always a trade that could be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 2021 Wily Peralta seems a lot like 2014 Alfredo Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, casimir said: If the Tigers end up with a crowded infield and have prospects coming up that are worthy of playing time, there's always a trade that could be made. The caution is that the bird in hand rule always applies - you never end up having nearly as many good options as you think you had when you let any >2 WAR player walk because you think it will be easy to do better. It just never is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The caution is that the bird in hand rule always applies - you never end up having nearly as many good options as you think you had when you let any >2 WAR player walk because you think it will be easy to do better. It just never is. I want all of the birds. And then if and when there are too many birds, the Tigers can trade some of the birds for some reptiles and mammals to address other needs on the team. Edit to add: I ain't counting on all of the birds being able to fly. Edited October 14, 2021 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 The risk at hand is that Jeimer, who has now established a baseline major league performance level, is pretty likely to be the clear best 3B option for us going into 2024, the year I assume the team is planning to finally contend for a ring. If that’s the case, then our decision at that point will be to give him however many years needed to keep him, for our best chance at the ring that year and beyond, or let him go and hope we have someone at least close who can replace him. This is why I don’t think a guaranteed three-year deal with an additional two team-options contract would be a bad risk. Sure, he could turn into a pumpkin in 2022 or ‘23 and we’d be on the hook for a third year in ‘24, but that would be it. Then we could audition his position for year three even, then be free of him after. But if he turns out for the next three years to be the player he was in 2021 (or even better), then we could gladly pick up the option for 2025, and if that works as well, for 2026, too. I think that’s a better risk than just taking the two arbs as they come, then having to decide whether we want to give him guarantees for through perhaps 2027 specifically because we need him for the push in 2024. I’ve talked myself into it: give Jeimer a 3+2 deal. If we don’t and take our chances on his arb instead, then we should plan on replacing him in 2024 no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: The caution is that the bird in hand rule always applies - you never end up having nearly as many good options as you think you had when you let any >2 WAR player walk because you think it will be easy to do better. It just never is. This is the summary statement of my last post, right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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