Week Ten: Detroit Lions (6-2) @ Los Angeles Chargers (4-4)

[RandyMarsh]

16 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

Now we are saying that play calling inside the 20 is random and a monkey could do it?  It’s a predictive state.  Teams that do poorly in the red zone tend to lose. The lions are an anomaly.

Why is it with lions fan being incapable of admitting that the red zone play calling could be better. 

It's not predictive cause there really isn't a skill to being a top red zone offense except maybe being extremely effective in short yardage situations like Philly is, that's why it constantly changes week to week and year to year. Also it's such a small sample that just a small number can make a major difference. If the Lions scored 2 more times they'd be in the top half of the league. 

Also another thing to keep in mind is that not all red zone trips are equal. Sometimes you start in the red zone right at the 20, other times you may start the red zone at the 1 yard line after a getting a big gain. Depending on that can alter your success rate as well. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[MichiganCardinal]

Dan Campbell is now 1-1-1 in his first three games out of the bye as a head coach.

How many can say that??

[holygoat]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

He looked fine but we didn't trade up and use a top 10ish overall pick on a guy for him to just make a couple short catches a game and be a good downfield blocker.  

I agree, but slow progress is better than no progress. That catch where he came back to the ball was really good, and he should've had a really nice TD, but for a poor call. I thought it was his best game overall so far.

[Jason_R]

10 hours ago, number20 said:

Not for the 12th overall pick in the draft. He should be at least as good as Jordan Addison on the field

Jaymo didn’t draft himself. Holmes drafted him. If Jaymo got drafted too high, blame Holmes, who also got caught gambling on Levi and maybe also on Broderick Martin. 

I’m glad to see Jaymo is on the field, getting reps, getting his timing down, and not complaining. 

[Biff Mayhem]

Okay, I'm drinking the koolaid. I tuned in during the fourth quarter and when the Chargers tied it up, I didn't default to SOL. I stuck around because I knew they would win.

 

[Jimbo]

Great game.  Herbert had a great game and we came out with a win against a tough team on the road.  Definitely a game that they will look at defensively and look to improve on.  Run defense looked good though and against one of the best RB's in the league.  Definitely need to improve on a more balanced strategy.  It's nice to see what our offense will look like when we have both RB's and healthy offensive line.  Not a perfect game but a win is a win especially on the road against a team that was desperate for a win.

On the whole Jaymo discussion.  I think you have to change your expectations as time goes on.  At this point it was a bad pick.  I just have accepted that.  Even if he ends up being a good to great receiver, a year and a half (lets face it will probably be two years) of low production out of the 12th overall pick is a bad pick.  I don't care how many good blocks or if he has a good play here and there.  Its a bad pick.  You really couldn't convince me that it was a good pick.  If St. Brown all of the sudden looked like an average WR, would you be OK with that because he was drafted late?  No, you would be disappointment and expect more from him.  That being said, my expectations for Jaymo now change because its already decided its a bad pick.  Now I want him to be a threat and keep on making good blocks.  At this point, I am not worried about where he was picked.  Just have to accept it was a bad pick and move on.  It does matter where the team is at as a whole when I look at individual players.  In the past I would focus more on where players were picked and their production because the team was bad. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Jimbo

[gehringer_2]

26 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Jaymo didn’t draft himself. Holmes drafted him. If Jaymo got drafted too high, blame Holmes, who also got caught gambling on Levi and maybe also on Broderick Martin. 

I’m glad to see Jaymo is on the field, getting reps, getting his timing down, and not complaining. 

Lions have the 4th most completions and yards in the league. It's not like the current receiver room is operating at a deficit. They don't need to push William's role.

Edited November 13, 2023 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

I haven’t accepted Jamo as a “bad pick” but I do think we need to adjust our expectations.

Yesterday, he played a role in us going to 7-2. I just can’t complain about that. Did Holmes probably hope for more when he drafted him? Yes. But at the end of the day everyone has a job to do, and he’s doing his. That block yesterday was masterful.

I think as much has to do with Jami as it has to do with the Jamo/Goff chemistry. I think if Jamo was getting ten targets per game he’d be thought of much higher. For whatever reason he’s just not one of Goff’s primary looks.

[RandyMarsh]

I think it's fair to say that Jamo may not be the best fit for the team, atleast in terms of consistent targets. 

Aside the fact that the Lions like to run the ball more than other teams they also have a legit number 1 who gets a ton of targets in St. Brown, an emerging TE who Goff loves in LaPorta, another guy he has a connection with in Reynolds and now a receiving weapon out of the backfield in Gibbs.

After that there just aren't that many targets left. Still though you'd hope that he could atleast make an impact by catching a deep ball every couple games or so. If he started to do that consistently that would make teams respect him alot more when he is out there.

Edited November 13, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[RatkoVarda]

force-feeding Gibbs in the Carolina game really helped get him going; the Chi game might be a good opportunity to try the same w/Williams

[1984Echoes]

57 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I haven’t accepted Jamo as a “bad pick” but I do think we need to adjust our expectations....

I think all of you guys are giving up on Jamo too early.

He's not a bad pick... and I don't think we even need to adjust expectations...

I'm still on board with him being a dangerous, dominant receiver in the NFL... with multiple 1,000+ receiving years in his future.

I think what needs to be adjusted is...

His timetable.

For whatever reason he is struggling with (injuries, can't do anything about that) his timing with Goff, his route running and hands. Wow, that sounds bad.

But the offset to those problems is that he appears to (A) love the game and (B) is dedicated to getting better.

I'm giving him more time to prove himself, one way or the other. It sucks that he is slow to get up to speed. But he gets there. IMO. And I don't want to offer impatient takes... which is what everyone here is giving right now, and it's understandable... but I think those are the wrong takes and the correct take is that this is a kid who just needs more time.

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

force-feeding Gibbs in the Carolina game really helped get him going; the Chi game might be a good opportunity to try the same w/Williams

One breakout game this year (and hopefully more productivity afterwards) changes everyone's viewpoint...

IMO.

[MichiganCardinal]

Just now, 1984Echoes said:

I think all of you guys are giving up on Jamo too early.

He's not a bad pick... and I don't think we even need to adjust expectations...

I'm still on board with him being a dangerous, dominant receiver in the NFL... with multiple 1,000+ receiving years in his future.

I think what needs to be adjusted is...

His timetable.

For whatever reason he is struggling with (injuries, can't do anything about that) his timing with Goff, his route running and hands. Wow, that sounds bad.

But the offset to those problems is that he appears to (A) love the game and (B) is dedicated to getting better.

I'm giving him more time to prove himself, one way or the other. It sucks that he is slow to get up to speed. But he gets there. IMO. And I don't want to offer impatient takes... which is what everyone here is giving right now, and it's understandable... but I think those are the wrong takes and the correct take is that this is a kid who just needs more time.

To be clear (I wasn’t in my original post), I’m NOT giving up on him. What I meant by adjusting expectations is that we shouldn’t say “he had two catches for 18 yards, another big play called back, and a huge block, but I’m not happy about that because he was a 12th overall pick”

Who cares where he was drafted, he’s contributing and helping us win games. I agree that he has not tapped his full potential. I really don’t think he’s all that close. I think as he and Goff continue to be on the field at the same time, his usage will increase.

[1984Echoes]

Just now, MichiganCardinal said:

To be clear (I wasn’t in my original post), I’m NOT giving up on him. What I meant by adjusting expectations is that we shouldn’t say “he had two catches for 18 yards, another big play called back, and a huge block, but I’m not happy about that because he was a 12th overall pick”

Who cares where he was drafted, he’s contributing and helping us win games. I agree that he has not tapped his full potential. I really don’t think he’s all that close. I think as he and Goff continue to be on the field at the same time, his usage will increase.

100%

[Jason_R]

10 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

force-feeding Gibbs in the Carolina game really helped get him going; the Chi game might be a good opportunity to try the same w/Williams

I sort of agree with this. The problem is that he has struggled to become a precise route runner. (There is a good article about this below.)

Holmes drafted him for his speed. If Williams was not a precise route runner coming out of college, that is on Holmes. But often you see highly drafted wide receivers struggle against their coaching staff. We are not seeing this with Williams. Instead, he seems to be improving slightly and doing his part to help the team win. He celebrated as much on that block as he did on his own touchdown that got called back. he seems to have a good attitude and is accepting coaching. I believe he will have a break out game sometime this season. 
 https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2023/11/8/23952008/detroit-lions-film-breakdown-only-solution-ameson-williams-time-on-task

[KL2]

21 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I think all of you guys are giving up on Jamo too early.

He's not a bad pick... and I don't think we even need to adjust expectations...

I'm still on board with him being a dangerous, dominant receiver in the NFL... with multiple 1,000+ receiving years in his future.

I think what needs to be adjusted is...

His timetable.

For whatever reason he is struggling with (injuries, can't do anything about that) his timing with Goff, his route running and hands. Wow, that sounds bad.

But the offset to those problems is that he appears to (A) love the game and (B) is dedicated to getting better.

I'm giving him more time to prove himself, one way or the other. It sucks that he is slow to get up to speed. But he gets there. IMO. And I don't want to offer impatient takes... which is what everyone here is giving right now, and it's understandable... but I think those are the wrong takes and the correct take is that this is a kid who just needs more time.

2 years of Jamo: You guys are giving up on Jamo too early

2 years of Hock: Get him out of here!

[MichiganCardinal]

2 minutes ago, KL2 said:

2 years of Jamo: You guys are giving up on Jamo too early

2 years of Hock: Get him out of here!

In fairness if anyone sought to give Jamo a $68.5MM contract right now I would seek to have them committed.

[Tigeraholic1]

3 minutes ago, KL2 said:

2 years of Jamo: You guys are giving up on Jamo too early

2 years of Hock: Get him out of here!

Hock was a money issue.

[NYLion]

11 hours ago, TP_Fan said:

Jaymo had a great game.  Stop being so negative. 

Lol, you're killing it today TP. **** on Ben Johnson, who is one of the elite OCs in the league, endlessly and praise Jamo who is a blocking receiver at this point in his career which would be fine if he was taken in the 6th round and not 12th overall.

FTR, I'm one of those who is willing to be patient with Jamo but I just find it hilarious that you defend him and constantly criticize the orchestrator of a top 5 offense although, yes, BJ has had a few questionable playcalls in the Red Zone at times as anybody does since nobody is perfect.

[1984Echoes]

10 minutes ago, KL2 said:

2 years of Jamo: You guys are giving up on Jamo too early

2 years of Hock: Get him out of here!

And it was:

FOUR years of Hock.

So let's not be dishonest.

Right...?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I haven’t accepted Jamo as a “bad pick” but I do think we need to adjust our expectations.

Yesterday, he played a role in us going to 7-2. I just can’t complain about that. Did Holmes probably hope for more when he drafted him? Yes. But at the end of the day everyone has a job to do, and he’s doing his. That block yesterday was masterful.

I think as much has to do with Jami as it has to do with the Jamo/Goff chemistry. I think if Jamo was getting ten targets per game he’d be thought of much higher. For whatever reason he’s just not one of Goff’s primary looks.

The question for Jaymo is what is his WAR rating compared to us having drafted Jordan Davis because that's the guy (well him and Malik Willis) people thought we were trading up to get and we took Jaymo instead. Does Jordan Davis make this defense any better than it has been at times this season, probably so. How much better? Likely not a leaps and bounds improvement. That may be a useless and worthless comparison, but it is one fans will make because many people wanted Davis when they traded up.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think as much has to do with Jami as it has to do with the Jamo/Goff chemistry. I think if Jamo was getting ten targets per game he’d be thought of much higher. For whatever reason he’s just not one of Goff’s primary looks.

This. We don't see practice, we don't know the route designs. Maybe for all his talent he hasn't learned to run his routes as accurately as St. Brown or LaPorta and/or maybe Goff also has less confidence he knows Williams' speed well enough to have his timing down with him.  Goff is playing the best QB of his career, based not in the least on success in his decisions about who he throws to. If this was a struggling passing offense, maybe Goff is  more willing to elevate Williams in his read list, but it's not. Goff is basically in charge of the process on the field and he is going to work Williams into the game as his comfort level with him rises and probably not before.

[Sports_Freak]

If someone would have told me that at this point of the season the Lions would be 4-1 on the road, I would have happily taken it. I wouldn't care how they won 4 road games, just that they won them. This winning culture is really a lot of fun. Please keep it going!

[KnoxP]

13 hours ago, TP_Fan said:

...Outside of the red zone we have the best OC in football...

What?

I am older than most, but I can't keep up with this.  Growth is good.

[Sports_Freak]

People who are complaining about the Lions defense forget about how bad the Chargers defense played, at home. They couldn't stop an incredible Detroit offense. Amazing...