1984Echoes Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: we'll see if they are committed enough to this to say goodbye to both Cisnero and Soto. Don't know if either have any trade value but... I think they could easily 40 Soto and then trade him before the offseason is over. I think there will be a demand for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatikIEV Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, chasfh said: I agree about keeping Lange, and you can pencil him in as a closer, but Joe J deserves a real shot at it after this season. The problem with Lange is Haase. Lange can't be our closer if Haase is our catcher. Lange's stuff (noteably the curve metrics and frequency) and propensity to work effectively low exposes Haase as not a major league quality catcher when receiving outlier pitches. One of the shortcomings still in defensive ratings for catching is the evaluation metrics on specific pitch receiving and subsequent frequency modulation on pitch calling/results. As an example, Lange unbelievably lead the league in WP with 15...and in limited duty, 10 of those came via Haase. It is/was so bad that in high leverage situations, pitch calling/location result (whether that be from Haase/bench or simply Lange not trusting Haase's receiving) changed to compensate for his shortcomings. If you watch back the games, there is also an inordinate number of complete whiffs on catching pitches that should be caught when bases are empty. So IMO, Lange actually has much higher value than his metrics show, and he probably should be seriously considered as our closer, but you can't pull our catcher everytime he comes in late in the game. Lange can never close if Haase is behind the plate. The two really should never be our battery at any point. TL:DR We need to find another role for Haase if we want to keep his bat....he can't catch more than a handful of games a year as a back-up option He is like the Baddoo of catchers...his stats look OK, as long as we squint at them, and situationally coddle his playing opportunities. Edited October 7, 2022 by StatikIEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Oh please, not this "Hinch to the front office" again. I thought that we stamped that out a long time ago. Exactly what would he do when he got there? Keep criticizing the video guys who didn't cure Grossman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackPine Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, StatikIEV said: The problem with Lange is Haase. Lange can't be our closer if Haase is our catcher. Lange's stuff (noteably the curve metrics and frequency) and propensity to work effectively low exposes Haase as not a major league quality catcher when receiving outlier pitches. One of the shortcomings still in defensive ratings for catching is the evaluation metrics on specific pitch receiving and subsequent frequency modulation on pitch calling/results. As an example, Lange unbelievably lead the league in WP with 15...and in limited duty, 10 of those came via Haase. It is/was so bad that in high leverage situations, pitch calling/location result (whether that be from Haase/bench or simply Lange not trusting Haase's receiving) changed to compensate for his shortcomings. If you watch back the games, there is also an inordinate number of complete whiffs on catching pitches that should be caught when bases are empty. So IMO, Lange actually has much higher value than his metrics show, and he probably should be seriously considered as our closer, but you can't pull our catcher everytime he comes in late in the game. Lange can never close if Haase is behind the plate. The two really should never be our battery at any point. TL:DR We need to find another role for Haase if we want to keep his bat....he can't catch more than a handful of games a year as a back-up option He is like the Baddoo of catchers...his stats look OK, as long as we squint at them, and situationally coddle his playing opportunities. How do they fit Haase's bat into the lineup without letting him catch? If he's the non-primary catcher he could catch 1.5 games a week and dh 3 games a week (assuming Miggy is no longer the primary dh). Maybe play OF occasionally, does anyone trust him out there either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 25 minutes ago, casimir said: I would think if Hinch moves into the front office, it would happen sooner than later. I agree that I doubt Hinch moves upstairs solely to keep Lombard. But, hey, we were told that they're going to to willing to take risks. Not sure this move would be a risk, but it certainly would seem to classify as unorthodox. So Harris interviews both these guys in depth, and maybe he sees Hinch's overall approach to team building and Lombard's approach to individual player management both match his philosphy closer. Probably not likely but certainly easy to imagine. The Coolbaugh situation would play into this. We don't know which side Hinch was/is on here. If he proactively went to Harris and said "we need to upgrade our approach at hitting coach" vs, Harris having to tell Hinch that Coolbaugh "had to go" could play large in Harris' evaluation of Hinch's best role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, JackPine said: How do they fit Haase's bat into the lineup without letting him catch? If he's the non-primary catcher he could catch 1.5 games a week and dh 3 games a week (assuming Miggy is no longer the primary dh). Maybe play OF occasionally, does anyone trust him out there either? I think Haase is a servicable enough OF, but is his bat good enough to displace a healthy Meadows or effective Baddoo? He certainly can't play in place of Greene. Haase has been the best bat amidst a terrible offense, but he still only managed a 750 OPS and it's easy to imagine Meadow and Baddoo doing better than that. But if you add him to the DH mix, play him against LHP you are protecting Baddoo from, and catch him occasionally you can get him another 300AB. But since Baddoo and Meadows are still pretty much lottery tickets, he could easily be in the mix for a lot of OF ABs. I think you need to hold on to him though because Rogers is also nothing more than a lotto ticket at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 I don't know. If I was the Tigers I'd give Haase a 1b glove and tell him to go find a place to take grounders and take throws all winter long. There is a good chance that Spence starts at Toledo next year, but this team really doesn't have a first baseman other than him. I don't think the Tigers are going to sign a good 1b who could block or be blocked by Tork. Haase's value increases a lot if he can play 1b on a semi-regular basis. He's athletic enough to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said: Best news since the Avila firing! Took a long time to board that flight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: He's athletic enough to do it. you can't unteach 5'10" though. Even Tork is a bit on the short side for what you want in a 1b ideally. Still, if Torkeson does not straighten out, he may be the best choice on the existing roster. Harold certainly doesn't have the bat to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 Following up on today's announcement ... This might be meaningful to the degree that Melheuse contributed to our improved September hitting, such as it was ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 Looking at the monthly splits table, it occurs to me: we avoided the dreaded Under-One-Hundred-Homer club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: Looking at the monthly splits table, it occurs to me: we avoided the dreaded Under-One-Hundred-Homer club. barely.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: you can't unteach 5'10" though. Even Tork is a bit on the short side for what you want in a 1b ideally. Still, if Torkeson does not straighten out, he may be the best choice on the existing roster. Harold certainly doesn't have the bat to be there. He can wear lifts.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 Just now, Motor City Sonics said: barely.......... Given how certain it looked that they were going to fall short of it, 110 homers represents a pretty good finish. OBT jacked bombs after September 1 at the rate of 172 per 162 games, which is right around league average of 174 for the season and, of course, way ahead of the 95 homer pace we'd been setting through end of August. One more data point for the camp of "Yeah, it was the coaching ..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Good news for people on their way home from work 87 years ago today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: you can't unteach 5'10" though. Even Tork is a bit on the short side for what you want in a 1b ideally. Still, if Torkeson does not straighten out, he may be the best choice on the existing roster. Harold certainly doesn't have the bat to be there. All joking aside, its another indictment of Al Avila that after all these years other than Torkelson he really didn't have a viable first baseman in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 32 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: All joking aside, its another indictment of Al Avila that after all these years other than Torkelson he really didn't have a viable first baseman in the system. I don't think many teams have a boat load of firstbasemen in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said: Oh please, not this "Hinch to the front office" again. I thought that we stamped that out a long time ago. Exactly what would he do when he got there? Keep criticizing the video guys who didn't cure Grossman? What else can we complain about? Soto is done blowing saves for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: you can't unteach 5'10" though. Even Tork is a bit on the short side for what you want in a 1b ideally. Still, if Torkeson does not straighten out, he may be the best choice on the existing roster. Harold certainly doesn't have the bat to be there. What if they try Torkelson at 3B and Haase at 1B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: I don't know. If I was the Tigers I'd give Haase a 1b glove and tell him to go find a place to take grounders and take throws all winter long. There is a good chance that Spence starts at Toledo next year, but this team really doesn't have a first baseman other than him. I don't think the Tigers are going to sign a good 1b who could block or be blocked by Tork. Haase's value increases a lot if he can play 1b on a semi-regular basis. He's athletic enough to do it. First base is not that hard. Tell him, Wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Just now, casimir said: What if they try Torkelson at 3B and Haase at 1B? I’d consider the reverse and only sucking at one position 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 It's been so long since we've been to the playoffs and in turn me really paying attention to the WC/1st round but did they always have playoff games on during a weekday at Noon like they do right now with Cleveland and TB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, casimir said: What if they try Torkelson at 3B and Haase at 1B? Tork has been impressive enough on GBs that it makes me wonder if they pulled the plug on him at 3b too soon - or maybe the arm just isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Tork has been impressive enough on GBs that it makes me wonder if they pulled the plug on him at 3b too soon - or maybe the arm just isn't there. Dealing with all of the throws from Baez had to have helped his glovework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Looking at the monthly splits table, it occurs to me: we avoided the dreaded Under-One-Hundred-Homer club. They really turned it on at the end... by the time they hit four bombs against Anaheim, it was basically fait accompli that they'd make it to 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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